The Colonel’s Corner The Devil’s Chessboard Part 6

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Transcript

0:00 Okay, we're going to go ahead and get started. Bridget will be here momentarily. Today has been an exciting day. Let me get us live over here on Rumble. So I don't know if you guys got a chance to see the podcast I did earlier with Joe and the General. It was a great podcast.

0:36 And I'm not sure if Illini is going to join us tonight, but I did get to have dinner with him last night and finally got to meet him, which was very, very exciting. And I do have an announcement tomorrow of just a crazy sequence of events that has happened over the last day.

1:01 It's not going to be done until tomorrow. So I don't want to talk about it until it actually happens. So you guys will definitely not want to miss tomorrow's show. It is such a small world. Such a small world. It's crazy. All right. So we're on chapter six in The Devil's Chessboard. And this...

1:28 chapter is a little weird, so we're going to kind of skim through it. This chapter is titled Useful People, and it's primarily, I have to cover it, otherwise I'd have just skipped the whole chapter, but it goes to the heart of who Alan Dulles was, and it's incredibly important to understand this guy as the machine that he was, as opposed to an actual person.

1:58 Because I come away from this entire book that the man's a machine. He's not like a human being. And you guys can tell me your opinion when we get done. But this chapter is about Alan Dulles' wife, Clover. And it starts off with introducing his wartime mistress, Mary Bancroft.

2:26 They both happened to be patients of a man called Carl. And I don't know if you pronounce this Jung, J-U-N-G. They were both seeking psychological therapy from Carl. And it was being done in Zurich. So it says that Mary

2:57 had began treatments with the man who was the second pillar of modern psychology in the 1930s after moving to Zurich with her new husband, who just so happened to be a Swiss banker. Clover entered analysis with Dr. Carl after reuniting with her husband, Alan, in Switzerland in the final months of the war.

3:28 They kind of met each other through this process. Now, she's sleeping with Clover's husband and they're both going to the same therapist. If that's not totally weird. Clover and Mary developed a friendship that would last many years. Basically, they were both trying to figure out Alan.

4:00 Dr. Carl was very interested in Alan through these two women because he was interested in what made people like Alan Dulles tick. So it says that both the two women's joint effort to understand the puzzle that was Alan Dulles was a doomed enterprise. On the surface, he was full of charm and gaiety,

4:35 That promised entry into a world of fascinating dignitaries and dazzling conversation. The air of mystery was intriguing to them both. Dulles only revealed a deeper and deeper emotional impenetrability. Like nobody's getting in. He had steely cold blue eyes that were basically.

5:06 an opening to nothing. And Dr. Carl said that he enjoyed discussing men of power and action like Dulles, analyzing the dictators of his time who held the fate of Europe in their hands. He had developed various powerful like prototypes and Dr. Carl deemed Hitler

5:36 a medicine man who ruled more through magic than political power, whereas Mussolini projected a brute strength of a tribal chief. Hitler seemed to lack not just physical potency, but basic human qualities. His power came from his uncanny mystical abilities to tap into the German people's deeply troubled conscience. Dr.

6:07 Karl once had the occasion to observe Hitler and Mussolini together. He recalled the revealing experience for an interviewer in October 1938, while Mussolini greeted the goose-stepping troops and trotting cavalry horses with the zest of a small boy at a circus. Hitler showed no emotion at all.

6:36 He appeared to Dr. Carl like a mask, like a robot. He seemed as if he might be the double of a real person that Hitler the man might perhaps be hiding inside. He went on to say, what an amazing difference between the two. I couldn't help liking Mussolini. He had a homely quality about him, like a human being. Hitler just scared him.

7:09 His portrait of Hitler is as chilling a picture as you can find. Dulles was fascinated by his insights into the German leader, and he urged Mary to keep seeking professional help from him. The two most powerful men in Mary Bancroft's life were intriguing with each other, though they had little direct communication. Dr. Carl had a hard time figuring out Dulles.

7:41 He did not fit neatly into any of the systems of personalities. One could see in Dulles the same deserving mix of magnetism and ruthlessness that Dr. Carl observed in other dictators. But there was also a blankness that made him hard to read. So, Alan Dulles first laid eyes on Martha.

8:13 Clover Todd in the summer of 1920 at a party of fashionable young people at a lakeside resort near the Dulles home in upstate New York. He had proposed to her quickly. She later described their courtship and marriage to Dulles with a sense of wonder. She couldn't quite explain why she'd agreed to marry him. I married Dulles, she said, because he was attractive and doing interesting things.

8:44 Allen Dulles gave her no room to reconsider his offer. He made the decision for both of them. She was a debutante on the social scene. Once on holiday from her Connecticut boarding school, Clover was invited by an eccentric New York society queen to an evening of honor of some poor convicts recently paroled from Sing Sing prison. The evening was grinding.

9:18 with its stiffness until Clover broke the ice by challenging the ex-cons to a game of poker. In later years, she made prison reform a personal passion. Clover affinity for convicts was fueled by the fact that she often felt like a prisoner in her own life. Clover's own childhood was rich in material comforts.

9:43 Her mother had came from a wealthy Baltimore manufacturing family whose foundry had produced the metal plates for the USS Monitor, the famed ironclad Civil War vessel. Her father, Henry Todd, was a distinguished professor of romance languages at Columbia University. Her and her sister and two brothers grew up in a nice house. Clover's father was a strict Presbyterian.

10:13 with an Old Testament sense of right and wrong. Clover's emotional touchstone in her family was her younger brother, Paul. He was a sensitive boy the nursemaids enjoyed dressing up. The most astonishing, weird animals fascinated him.

10:43 On the eve of Allen and Clover's wedding, which was held in October of 1920 in a wooded estate of the Todd family outside of Baltimore, her younger brother had sent word that he didn't feel hearty enough to attend the festivities. He said he didn't feel well. Clover later tormented herself for not being more attuned to her brother's emotional condition as she prepared for her wedding.

11:16 but she herself was otherwise occupied. That December, when the newlywed couple arrived in Constantinople, Allen's next diplomatic port of call, Clover heard that her brother Paul had suffered a nervous breakdown and was confined to a sanitarium in Connecticut. In November 1921, after being discharged, the 21-year-old was found dead.

11:45 in bushes alongside of the road, not very far from the sanitarium. He had shot himself. Paul's death had plagued Clover for many years. In a certain sense, she said, I feel like I killed him. Clover quickly learned that the man she had married was simply not suited to help someone else with their emotional turmoil. Clover and Alan's oldest daughter, Martha Toddy, was her nickname,

12:17 also grappled with psychic demons throughout her life. She was a manic depressive person. And it became so severe that she was submitted to several rounds of electroshock therapy. Now, if you don't get it, these are the people that are running the world. And they're a bunch of crazy people. He also had a son, Alan Jr.

12:49 And even when the boy began to shine at Xavier, which was the prep school that all of these crazy people sent their kids to, Alan Dulles didn't seem interested at all. He seemed like a guest in his own family. It was clear to his daughter, Joan, that his life was somewhere else. She would remember, my father was a benign figure at home. He was friendly, but he was clearly not interested in us.

13:22 I don't remember any anger. He never scolded us, but he didn't pay any attention to us either. One time Joan saw her father cry after he heard on the radio about the fall of France to Hitler's troops. She said it was basically the only emotion she ever saw her father have. At breakfast, he would have the New York Times and I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about his attitude towards anything.

13:55 because his face was always buried in the newspaper. Dulles carefully insulated Clover from his life. He would fly off to distant locations at a moment's notice and not tell her where he was going or how long he was going to be gone. That's just the way he operated. Dulles kept his professional life from Clover because he was afraid that she was too moral to understand what he was doing.

14:22 Dulles would fill his letters home to Clover with references to his many dalliances and infatuations with other women. The life he invoked in these correspondence was filled with beautiful countesses and mixed cocktails, which evilly reinforced Clover's domestic confinement.

14:48 his sister, once remarked on the difference between her two brothers. Foster, who was inseparable from his own wife, Janet, would go out of his way to help anyone in the family who was in distress. The pious older brother would even secure an abortionist in his day, not an easy task. If it came to that, she said, as for Alan, when anyone was in trouble,

15:18 Allen seemed always to be off somewhere, lying under a palm, getting himself fanned. Clover tried to keep the distress of her marriage from her children. She ran the family household in Manhattan and Long Island with efficiency. She took pains to compensate for his emotional shortcomings.

15:38 Soon after she was reunited with Alan in Bern in 1945, she tried to put his extreme self-absorption in the best possible light for her daughter. By then, Alan had been away from home for over two years, during which time he had no contact with his children. Clover would write later, Dad asked for news of you both very...

16:06 especially you and Alan in your coming of age. Otherwise, it would not be possible for you to imagine how engrossed he is in his work and how he neither thinks, speaks of anything else. There is no doubt he is different from most, but I do believe that he does everything that he does, not only because he likes it, but as a way of showing his affection for us, paying us a compliment.

16:34 of believing that what we want is for him to do something worthwhile in the world. Talk about making excuses. Clover would write a more honest assessment of her husband in a diary that she left to her children. By then, she felt no obligation to window dress their marriage. Quote, my husband doesn't converse with me, not that he doesn't talk to me about his business, but that he doesn't talk about anything.

17:03 took me a long time to realize that when he talks, it is only for the purpose of obtaining something. He talks easily with men who can give him information. He puts himself out with women who he thinks has interesting things or can do something for him. He has either to be making someone admire him or to be receiving some information worth his while. Otherwise, he gives one the impression that he doesn't talk because the person isn't worth.

17:32 talking to clover went to great lengths to rejoin alan in switzerland pulling every available string to acquire a visa and travel permits necessary for an american citizen to go to war-torn europe at last after hearing the u.s embassy in the newly liberated paris had ordered a shipment of official cars she finagled a way of becoming a driver so she could get over there she disembarked in lisbon

18:05 and joined the convoy as it took an arduous route through Portugal and Spain, crossing into France, where she and a dozen other drivers came under the protection of the French resistance fighters. It took a full week to make the journey. Exhausted, Clover delivered her vehicle to the American embassy. She was relieved to hear that her husband was also in Paris, but he...

18:34 installed her in a different hotel and kept her waiting for two days. When he appeared at her hotel room, he informed her that he could only spare her 10 minutes after not seeing her for two years. He told her to meet him early the next morning at his own hotel to begin their journey to Switzerland. Then, without making any effort to cushion the blow, he announced that her mother had died.

19:04 while Clover was crossing the Atlantic. Then he disappeared. Dulles told Mary soon after meeting her, my wife is an angel. She always is doing things for other people. After Clover began treatment with Jolande Jacoby, who was Dr. Carl's assistant, she began basically spilling her guts. When Dulles shifted his operation to Germany in the post-war period,

19:40 Clover moved to Zurich so that she could work more closely with Jacoby. It was an intense therapeutic relationship that she kept going long after she had returned to the United States, returning to Switzerland on numerous occasions for long visits. The journals that Clover kept during her analysis was introspective. And I'm not going to bore you with the details, but it's crazy.

20:12 Mary Bancroft, the mistress, sympathized with Clover up to a point. They would compare notes on Alan Dulles. But Mary was more fascinated with the world of male power than Clover was. She prided herself in understanding men like Dulles in a way that a wife could not. Mary, whose mother died hours after giving birth to her, was raised by her grandparents in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

20:41 In a household dominated by men whose ambitious ambitions always seem just beyond their reach. Her grandfather was a former mayor of Cambridge and Harvard overseer who once talked about as a candidate for governor, but never made it beyond municipal politics. Her father had been a young scholar entering Harvard at the age of 14 and graduating three years later. He became a lawyer and like his father.

21:10 was a pillar of civic affairs. He was appointed the director of the port of Boston. And that's huge because again, remember the ports back in the day, all the trade came through there, all the nefarious cargo came through there. But the top rung of power eluded Mary's father too.

21:35 The man who made the biggest impression on Mary was a step or two away from her immediate family, Clarence Barron, B-A-R-R-O-N. He was a publisher at the Wall Street Journal and the stepfather of her stepmother. She spent as much time as she could with him, watching him dictate memos from bed until noon and sending the mail secretaries who were always at hand on their errands.

22:05 At an early age, Mary became familiar with names like Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, Harriman, Ford, and DuPont. Their world always seemed to hover just beyond her fingertips. Mary was disappointed in marriage. Her first husband, the father of her two children, turned out to be dull. Her second, a French-Swiss banker who traveled frequently on business to the Balkans in the Far East, promised to be more exciting.

22:35 But once she was installed in his Zurich home, they settled into a marriage of convenience. When Mary was introduced to Dulles in December of 1942, shortly after he arrived in Switzerland, they took an instant liking to each other. At 39, she was a decade younger than Alan Dulles, and by her own account, at the height of her sexual proudness. Her first impression of Alan Dulles was an aging man.

23:04 and the rumpled clothes, that of a distracted professor. Mary not only possessed the right pedigree, she was a sharp intelligence, and she had a sharp intelligence in accommodating warmth. And Dulles instantly knew he could put her to use. Mary, in turn, found herself immediately excited about going to work for Dulles. He actually shimmered with excitement, she said.

23:32 It seemed to cling to him. Here was the man that would finally take her into the world of action, which she had fantasized ever since she was a girl. When she watched while Bill Donovan paraded down Fifth Avenue with his troops on Armistice Day, it excited her. Ever since then, she said, I long for life of adventure. I wanted to go everywhere, see everything, be like Mata Hari.

24:03 Dulles never made Bancroft an official OSS agent, but he quickly found a role for her, phoning her at her Zurich apartment every morning at 9.30 and giving her the day's marching orders. She pumped information out of a variety of sources, from cleaning maids with German relatives to people of the intellectual and artistic elite in the German-Austrian exile community,

24:33 Well read. Mary also proved that she was more tuned in to certain nuances of the spycraft than Dulles. She realized, for instance, the intelligence could be gathered from the enemy as well as the Allied camp by tapping into an underground homosexual network that ran through Europe's diplomatic and espionage circles. That's cool. One of the OSS colleagues was frantic.

25:02 Bancroft later recalled, because he wanted to get a, how do you say, you know, a line into this homosexual network. And he used to bang on the desk and say, I wish Washington would send me a reliable fairy. I want somebody with a pretty behind so I can get into the fairy network and find out what the British are doing in North Africa. That's gross. Her colleague

25:30 couldn't bring himself to discuss his delicate recruitment needs with the old-fashioned Dulles. As Mary repeatedly observed in her journals, had been born into the 19th century. So Mary broached the subject with Dulles, who did indeed prove clueless about the homosexual community. Both men were excited by the idea of forging a pioneering marriage between espionage and psychology.

26:02 Dulles' reports back to Washington were filled with Dr. Karl's insight into the Nazi leadership and the German people. Dr. Karl even correctly predicted that an increasingly desperate Hitler might commit suicide. Mary's appointments with Dr. Karl became dominated by Dulles' ask him this question, to the point that they were more closely resembling espionage briefings than therapy.

26:32 Dulles was so enamored with the flow of provocative psycho-political perceptions that Dr. Carl had that he gave him his own OSS number, Agent 488. After the war, the spy master hinted broadly to Dr. Carl's family friend that the sage of Europe, of Zurich, had even contributed to the Allied.

26:57 caused by leaking information that he had gleaned through sessions with other people. While Dulles valued Mary as a go-between with men like Dr. Carl, he also found more personal uses for him. One morning, he came rushing into their apartment and basically wanted to have sex with her, and then left.

27:23 The spy chief was confident enough in his control over Mary that he felt he could loan her out to German agents with whom Dulles had established relationships. Dulles arranged for Mary, who was fluent in German, to work with a tall Nazi double agent, Hans-Berd Jefevis, G-I-S-E-V-I-U-S, on his memoirs.

27:52 He had secretly turned against Hitler after his once promising Gestapo career had stalled and in frustration began feeding Dulles important information about German military operations. One day, he had grown enamored with Mary and as they worked together over his manuscript, begged her to come away with him.

28:20 He wanted to introduce her to Rudolph Diels, D-I-E-L-S. The invitation appealed to Mary in an appetite for danger, but she turned it down. When she told Dulles about it, he was upset, not because there was a rival for his mistress, but she had missed an opportunity to get information. Mary did, in fact, later become JVS lover.

28:50 but she confided to Dr. Carl shuttling back and forth between the two was too much. He became, GVS became one of the principal conspirators in the July 20th, 1944 bomb plot against Hitler, barely fleeing for his life to Switzerland after it failed. When she discussed her German's lover exploits with Dr. Carl, he was unimpressed with his moral character.

29:20 The German was fighting for the same thing that Hitler possessed. Dr. Carl told Mary, pure power. He added that JVS and his rival in the conspiracy ring, General Klaus von Stauffenberg, were like a pair of lions fighting over a hunk of raw meat. When she gave Dr. Carl some pages of his book for his reaction,

29:48 He just said it was saturated with Nazi ideology. Dr. Carl told Mary that she would always attract extremely ambitious men interested in gaining power for themselves. She would never be the type of woman who judged men like this, whatever their moral flaws. Power is a natural attraction. Dulles would gain notoriety for his promiscuity, at least among his biographers, some of whom

30:19 expressed greater disdain for his indiscretions as a moral failing. But by Mary's standard, he was by no means sexually reckless. She took ombrage when British trader Kim Philby described Dulles as a womanizer in his memoir. One evening, while they were together, Mary fell into a conversation with Dulles about

30:49 napoleon's love life she told him that she had read that the great conqueror had enjoyed nine women during his life dullis exclaimed nine i beat him by one mary was amused by alan's boast to anyone born in the 20th century as i was she later noted that seemed a very modest score particularly for a man who had traveled the world it certainly didn't qualify him as a womanizer

31:22 Dulles was fortunate to find someone like Mary, a woman whose morals were conveniently flexible, as was his. In order to engage in intelligence work successfully, Mary said, it was essential to have a clear-cut idea of what your own morality was so that if you were forced by necessity to break them, you were fully conscious that you were doing it. Not that you wouldn't do it, just that you would know you're doing it.

31:54 But even the sophisticated Mary found herself unnerved by one of her conversations with Dulles. She'd observed that despite his cunning reputation, Dulles always seemed so open and trusting, even when people about whom he clearly harbored suspicions or whom he had actually had the goods on. As he listened to Mary, Dulles grinned. I like to watch the little mice sniffing at the cheese just before they venture into the trap, he told her.

32:24 I like to see their expression when it snaps, breaking their neck. Mary was so taken aback. She told him she found it repulsive, but Dulles would have none of her outrage. What's the matter with you? Don't you realize that if I had not caught them, they were going to catch me.

32:48 Clover Dulles had great hopes for her second daughter, Joan, after she graduated from Ratcliffe College in 1944, where many of her classes had been integrated with Harvard due to the wartime shortage of professors. Clover wanted her daughter to escape the confinements of domestic life. Joan joined the Frontier Nursing Service, an organization that imported British midwives because midwivery.

33:16 was outlawed in America to help deliver babies in places like Kentucky. Joan escorted midwives on horseback through hills and hollers in the Bluegrass State, sometimes riding for as long as five hours at a time. In the following years, as the war was coming to an end, Joan sailed for Europe with her aunt Eleanor, Dulles' sister, who was on a diplomatic assignment to Austria.

33:44 a country that was rapidly turning into the front line in the Cold War. Vienna had been divided into allied occupation zones. It was suffering with danger and intrigue later displayed in a 1949 film called The Third Man. Joan was once threatened with arrest by Russian soldiers as she traveled by train through the Soviet zone. Joan seemed well on her way to fulfilling her mom's hopes of creating a bold life for herself.

34:13 She had studied international law in relations at Radcliffe, and she seemed well-positioned to follow her aunt's pioneering path as a female diplomat. She spoke French and German and was learning Russian. But Alan Dulles had other plans for his daughter. While Joan was visiting Vienna, her father introduced her to one of the young agents from the war, a well-born and well-connected Austrian man by the name of Fritz Molden.

34:42 M-O-L-D-E-N, the son of a prominent newspaper editor and a widely respected author and poet. Molden and his family had suffered cruelty at the hands of the Gestapo. After escaping from punishment on the Eastern Front, he had been forced to join. Molden took up the Australian resistance where he had been put in touch with Dulles.

35:05 Molden grew attached to Dulles through the spymaster kept asking the young men to prove himself by risking his life. After the war, the communists accused Molden of continuing the work of a paid agent of Dulles, even though he denied it. When Joan and Fritz married in the spring of 1948, it was clearly a marriage of convenience for Joan's father and her new husband. Molden, who became secretary to the Austrian foreign minister, Karl.

35:34 Gruber, after the war and later an influential journalist and diplomat, was a vital intelligence connection. He married his daughter off for intelligence. The marriage was also a wise move for Malden. For the young, ambitious Australian, having Alan Dulles as a father-in-law was a feather in his cap. Joan had great difficulty explaining why she married her husband. Joan suffered the same severe pre-wedding doubts as Clover.

36:06 found fritz erratic always given to creating dramatic situations she worried about marrying someone who wasn't ever satisfied with the simple everyday aspects of life joan gave in to the intensity of her suitor and went through the marriage resigning herself to the fact that she would never have children or enjoy a stable life her marriage to molden was openly um

36:35 in the company of other women soon develop a striking resemblance to that of her parents. He often disappeared on mysterious rendezvous, leaving her to wonder what happened to him. He was a ladies' man, that's for sure, Joan would recall later. He was so extroverted that you just never knew where he was. He'd say, let's rent a sailboat in the Greek islands.

37:02 And I didn't know how many of his girlfriends would be on board or how long we'd be at sea. Joan divorced Molden in 1954, but as if to not disappoint her father, she quickly replaced him with another high-ranking Austrian diplomat named Eugene Burek, the son of a former Australian chancellor. He had succeeded Molden as the director of the Austrian Information Service.

37:33 In New York, an intelligence function. The following year, after being named Austrian's ambassador to Iran, Barak took Joan off to Tehran, another highly sensitive diplomatic posting. Joan suddenly found herself amid the imperial splendor of the Shah's court. The emperor reinstalled on the peacock throne by her father.

38:03 After the CIA overthrow of the Iranian Prime Minister Mosaddegh in 1953, Joan gave birth to two children, a boy and a girl. Like Fritz Molden, her second choice for a husband seemed crafted primarily for her husband's, for her father's professional benefit. Iran was not the only oil-rich nation. It was a strategic location for CIA surveillance of the Soviet Union.

38:32 To have a son-in-law acting as his eyes and ears inside the Shah's court was a bonanza for Dulles by now running the CIA. But again, the marriage turned out to be much less beneficial for Joan. In 1959, she wrote her father a painful letter, making all of it sound upbeat, informing him that they had separated. Joan was living with her young children in Switzerland at the time.

39:01 had recently visited her parents in Washington, but found it easier to tell her father in a letter. She would say, would have gone on trying endlessly for the sake of the children, but very glad to be alone again. Joan had good reason to welcome the breakup. He had turned out to have a violent streak. Every six months or every time I do something he doesn't approve of, he gets terrible fits of rage and tries to beat me up.

39:33 Last summer, because I tried to come to Europe to see my mother, he nearly kicked me out. When he says kick me out, Joan added, literally kick me out with his feet. Joan did not dwell on the abuse. As she called her husband, Gino, she was much more concerned that her father not worry about her. Joan was clearly eager for her father's reassurance, even his forgiveness.

40:05 as she wrote the letter. Joan finally found sanctuary, not only from her husband, but from her father by moving her children to a remote New Mexico high desert. It was about as far away from her father's world as she could venture. She made her home in Santa Fe among artists, returning to Zurich in the mid-60s, where she too studied under Dr. Carl and became a certified psychoanalyst.

40:37 After she came back to Santa Fe, she married another therapist by the name of John Talley, where she lived and worked until his death in 2013. Mary Bancroft believed she had fallen in love with Alan Dulles, but Dulles himself was incapable of loving anyone. Dr. Carl made an observation that stuck with Mary for many years. The opposite of love is not hate, it's power.

41:05 Relationships fueled by a drive for power where one person seeks dominance over the other is incapable of love. Dr. Carl would go on to say, one does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making darkness conscious. Sounds like a real weirdo. Okay, that's the end of that chapter. And I think we're gonna stop there.

41:36 Because that's crazy crap. Anyway. What a strange woman. What a strange, weird, they're just twisted. All of them. Yeah, I mean, there is no depth to their depravity. And they seem to be depraved from the very beginning. What's interesting to me is throughout your entire life, you know, you hear about these figures.

42:08 You know, even if they're evil, they did crazy things. You know, they weren't stupid. They were very, very smart. But to peek behind the curtain and find out not only are they evil, but they're like Satan level evil. It's crazy. And they're crazy. Amen. Certified.

42:37 Yeah, but in a way, it explains everything that happens after that. Yes, yes. They can kill millions of people and never feel a thing. Megan, go ahead. Colonel, I'm just going to tell you right now, I almost thought I walked into the wrong space when I started hearing you speak. Holy shit. This is insane.

43:09 It's totally insane. Hopefully this is the only chapter in this book that has this kind of detail on this level. Pretty much. Not that I'm not a worldly man. I've been around the world a few times in the Air Force, you know. But I'm just saying, that even made me feel fucking dirty. Holy fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

43:34 I really debated about just, you can't skip over that though. You really have to know the level of depravity that we're working with here in order to understand. And there's lots of those people like him. He wasn't the only one. It's crazy. I love over here on.

43:56 rumble barbara taylor this book has pissed me off pissed me the f off thanks colonel my contempt for our congress is at an all-time high yours and mine both honey yours and mine both um renee go ahead hey good evening everybody yeah i totally this brought up

44:20 I never finished the book, Wild Bill Donovan, the spymaster who created the OSS. But early on in that book, it brings up his extreme amount of extramarital affairs and how he would use it against his political rivals. And then also, I think a lot of them are just twisted egomaniacs because, you know, then we got...

44:47 J. Edgar Hoover wackiness with cross-dressing. And then I thought of, I don't know if everyone here has heard of Kay Griggs and her story that she shared. I think it was in the end of the 90s. But she spoke of her husband who was a Marine Corps colonel, right? And that was wild. So it seems like there's a pattern here with some twisted, freaky stuff.

45:16 There's definitely some freaky weird stuff. I'll just say that. The worst part about this is being in the military myself and viewing from the outside how politicians work and seeing how that whole process goes through is the level. I mean, for someone that would.

45:47 choose to attain power in that method it's almost like a dei program for someone like me i always wanted to be the best in everything i did but i didn't want to get there by nefarious means i mean holy shit and then you get a guy like me that gets a bad name because all these other assholes out there it's by any means it's by any means necessary that's their motto

46:16 by any means necessary. There is nothing too perverted, too evil if it gets them to their next step. And I mean, if you think about it, these are the people, you really have to be that type of evil if you're going to sit in an office with a bunch of people and plan to

46:47 overthrow a government, and in many cases, kill the person sitting in the office. And know that you're doing it as an agent for hire for an oligarch. I mean, these people are worse than any pirate that ever set sail, no matter how many people a pirate killed or how much shit they stole. These people were that times a billion. That's how evil they are. Renee, go ahead.

47:17 Yeah, I think it kind of makes sense if you think about it in a profile of a psychopath because they don't really have a conscious nor have feeling. So they probably do overtly extreme things just to see if they'll feel from it maybe. You know, there's a void, don't have like a connection, a conscious, I don't know how to say what else.

47:44 They just push it and push to the limits because they don't feel anything. Well, they definitely don't feel anything. I'm not sure they do it for a thrill. They do it for power and control. And these are like, they're not even the people in charge. I mean, they're doing it for hire. They are doing it as a hitman.

48:15 for the oligarchs. Because Alan Dulles was not at the top of that chain. I mean, he did it for the Sullivan and Cromwell customers. So it is like hiring a mass murderer that will go out and secure resources for you. That's what Alan Dulles basically was. He was a mass murderer for hire wearing a...

48:45 lawyer's outfit working in the CIA. He was a hired hitman. I'm just going to say another thing, too. This brings into a stark focus. You know, we've been arguing about the left versus right for umpteen years, and until you realize they're the same wings of the same bird. Yep.

49:16 It's no different between a male and a female on this planet because both of them, and I would dare to venture a guess, women are much more devious than men are about it, or diabolical, I should say. Man, anyway, I ain't got anything else more to say. I'm done. I can't wait for this space to be over and hit my pillow.

49:44 Fuck. Thank you, Colonel. Thank you. Thank you, Megan. I do think there is truth to that. I don't know that one's more able than the other. I think society views women as nurturing. And when they turn out to be a cold-blooded killer, the disconnect is so much farther than the expectations that you have from a man.

50:14 So yes, yes, there you go. That okay. That's more what I was trying to say. Yeah.

50:19 And there are stories of that one woman over in, I don't even remember what country it was. I wanna say it was Vietnam that would drive like a stiletto hill through the eardrums of service members and kill them in the middle of sex, like high ranking military officers. Yeah, you don't ever expect that level of evilness. And that's obviously not any worse than,

50:48 you know, being a hitman of, you know, assassinating a guy with a bullet in the head. But there is society-wise some level of cognizant, yeah, a guy is capable of doing that, but you just never, those of us that are normal anyway, that have women in our lives that are loving and nurturing.

51:15 You can't get your head wrapped around that all of the internal parts of being loving and nurturing has been eaten away and they don't exist. And that a woman can be just as a diabolical killer as a man can. It's just psychologically very hard for us to process. So that just makes them appear more evil. But I definitely think it's a...

51:44 equal evilness. Yeah, I agree. All right. So that's all it is. Definitely tune in tomorrow. Tomorrow's going to be an exciting, it's a good part of the book, but hopefully I will have some really exciting news to share with you as well.

52:11 So you guys enjoy your evening. Thanks for rearranging your schedule to join us. My last minute need to move things around. I appreciate that. I will see you tomorrow at four, I hope, if this meeting doesn't take too long. And anyway, I'll see you then. You guys have a nice evening. Take care.

Entities here

Allen Dulles41 Mary Bancroft25 Clover Dulles23 Joan Dulles18 Carl Jung18 Switzerland12 United States11 Adolf Hitler9 Fritz Molden8 West Germany7 World War II6 Hans-Bernd Gisevius5 Eugene Burek4 Paul Todd4 Dulles family4 France3 United Kingdom3 Benito Mussolini3 The Devil's Chessboard3 CIA2 Massachusetts2 Harvard University2 Todd Family2 Soviet Union2 Gestapo2 Karl Gruber2 Martha Todd Dulles2 Iran2 Santa Fe2 Baltimore2 William J. Donovan2 Connecticut2 Austria2 Kentucky1 Mohammad Mosaddegh1 Sullivan & Cromwell1 J. Edgar Hoover1 Spain1 Cold War1 Columbia University1

Claims made here

Mary Bancroft patient_of Carl Jung book_quoted ▶ 2:26

“They both happened to be patients of a man called Carl. And I don't know if you pronounce this Jung, J-U-N-G. They were both seeking psychological therapy from Carl. And it was being done in Zurich. S…”

Clover Dulles patient_of Carl Jung book_quoted ▶ 2:57

“had began treatments with the man who was the second pillar of modern psychology in the 1930s after moving to Zurich with her new husband, who just so happened to be a Swiss banker. Clover entered ana…”

Carl Jung analyzed Benito Mussolini book_quoted ▶ 5:36

“a medicine man who ruled more through magic than political power, whereas Mussolini projected a brute strength of a tribal chief. Hitler seemed to lack not just physical potency, but basic human quali…”

Carl Jung analyzed Adolf Hitler book_quoted ▶ 5:36

Allen Dulles married Clover Dulles book_quoted ▶ 8:44

“Allen Dulles gave her no room to reconsider his offer. He made the decision for both of them. She was a debutante on the social scene. Once on holiday from her Connecticut boarding school, Clover was …”

Henry Todd father_of Clover Dulles book_quoted ▶ 9:43

“Her mother had came from a wealthy Baltimore manufacturing family whose foundry had produced the metal plates for the USS Monitor, the famed ironclad Civil War vessel. Her father, Henry Todd, was a di…”

Paul Todd brother_of Clover Dulles book_quoted ▶ 10:13

“with an Old Testament sense of right and wrong. Clover's emotional touchstone in her family was her younger brother, Paul. He was a sensitive boy the nursemaids enjoyed dressing up. The most astonishi…”

Allen Dulles worked_in Istanbul book_quoted ▶ 11:16

“but she herself was otherwise occupied. That December, when the newlywed couple arrived in Constantinople, Allen's next diplomatic port of call, Clover heard that her brother Paul had suffered a nervo…”

Martha Todd Dulles daughter_of Allen Dulles book_quoted ▶ 11:45

“in bushes alongside of the road, not very far from the sanitarium. He had shot himself. Paul's death had plagued Clover for many years. In a certain sense, she said, I feel like I killed him. Clover q…”

Joan Dulles daughter_of Allen Dulles book_quoted ▶ 12:49

“And even when the boy began to shine at Xavier, which was the prep school that all of these crazy people sent their kids to, Alan Dulles didn't seem interested at all. He seemed like a guest in his ow…”

Janet Dulles married Allen Dulles book_quoted ▶ 14:48

“his sister, once remarked on the difference between her two brothers. Foster, who was inseparable from his own wife, Janet, would go out of his way to help anyone in the family who was in distress. Th…”

Allen Dulles worked_in Switzerland book_quoted ▶ 19:04

“while Clover was crossing the Atlantic. Then he disappeared. Dulles told Mary soon after meeting her, my wife is an angel. She always is doing things for other people. After Clover began treatment wit…”

Clover Dulles patient_of Jolande Jacoby book_quoted ▶ 19:04

Clarence Barron publisher_of The Wall Street Journal book_quoted ▶ 21:35

“The man who made the biggest impression on Mary was a step or two away from her immediate family, Clarence Barron, B-A-R-R-O-N. He was a publisher at the Wall Street Journal and the stepfather of her …”

Allen Dulles had_affair_with Mary Bancroft book_quoted ▶ 22:35

“But once she was installed in his Zurich home, they settled into a marriage of convenience. When Mary was introduced to Dulles in December of 1942, shortly after he arrived in Switzerland, they took a…”

Allen Dulles recruited Mary Bancroft book_quoted ▶ 23:04

“and the rumpled clothes, that of a distracted professor. Mary not only possessed the right pedigree, she was a sharp intelligence, and she had a sharp intelligence in accommodating warmth. And Dulles …”

Allen Dulles recruited Carl Jung book_quoted ▶ 26:32

“Dulles was so enamored with the flow of provocative psycho-political perceptions that Dr. Carl had that he gave him his own OSS number, Agent 488. After the war, the spy master hinted broadly to Dr. C…”

Mary Bancroft spied_on Hans-Bernd Gisevius book_quoted ▶ 27:23

“The spy chief was confident enough in his control over Mary that he felt he could loan her out to German agents with whom Dulles had established relationships. Dulles arranged for Mary, who was fluent…”

Hans-Bernd Gisevius member_of Gestapo book_quoted ▶ 27:52

“He had secretly turned against Hitler after his once promising Gestapo career had stalled and in frustration began feeding Dulles important information about German military operations. One day, he ha…”

Allen Dulles recruited Hans-Bernd Gisevius book_quoted ▶ 27:52

Mary Bancroft had_affair_with Hans-Bernd Gisevius book_quoted ▶ 28:20

“He wanted to introduce her to Rudolph Diels, D-I-E-L-S. The invitation appealed to Mary in an appetite for danger, but she turned it down. When she told Dulles about it, he was upset, not because ther…”

Hans-Bernd Gisevius member_of July 20 Plot book_quoted ▶ 28:50

“but she confided to Dr. Carl shuttling back and forth between the two was too much. He became, GVS became one of the principal conspirators in the July 20th, 1944 bomb plot against Hitler, barely flee…”

Klaus von Stauffenberg member_of July 20 Plot book_quoted ▶ 29:20

“The German was fighting for the same thing that Hitler possessed. Dr. Carl told Mary, pure power. He added that JVS and his rival in the conspiracy ring, General Klaus von Stauffenberg, were like a pa…”

Kim Philby described Allen Dulles book_quoted ▶ 30:19

“expressed greater disdain for his indiscretions as a moral failing. But by Mary's standard, he was by no means sexually reckless. She took ombrage when British trader Kim Philby described Dulles as a …”

Joan Dulles member_of Frontier Nursing Service book_quoted ▶ 32:48

“Clover Dulles had great hopes for her second daughter, Joan, after she graduated from Ratcliffe College in 1944, where many of her classes had been integrated with Harvard due to the wartime shortage …”

Joan Dulles traveled_to Austria book_quoted ▶ 33:16

“was outlawed in America to help deliver babies in places like Kentucky. Joan escorted midwives on horseback through hills and hollers in the Bluegrass State, sometimes riding for as long as five hours…”

Joan Dulles traveled_to Vienna book_quoted ▶ 33:44

“a country that was rapidly turning into the front line in the Cold War. Vienna had been divided into allied occupation zones. It was suffering with danger and intrigue later displayed in a 1949 film c…”

Allen Dulles recruited Fritz Molden book_quoted ▶ 34:13

“She had studied international law in relations at Radcliffe, and she seemed well-positioned to follow her aunt's pioneering path as a female diplomat. She spoke French and German and was learning Russ…”

Fritz Molden member_of Austrian resistance book_quoted ▶ 34:42

“M-O-L-D-E-N, the son of a prominent newspaper editor and a widely respected author and poet. Molden and his family had suffered cruelty at the hands of the Gestapo. After escaping from punishment on t…”

Joan Dulles married Fritz Molden book_quoted ▶ 35:05

“Molden grew attached to Dulles through the spymaster kept asking the young men to prove himself by risking his life. After the war, the communists accused Molden of continuing the work of a paid agent…”

Allen Dulles funded Fritz Molden book_quoted ▶ 35:05

Fritz Molden appointed Karl Gruber book_quoted ▶ 35:34

“Gruber, after the war and later an influential journalist and diplomat, was a vital intelligence connection. He married his daughter off for intelligence. The marriage was also a wise move for Malden.…”

Allen Dulles recruited Eugene Burek book_quoted ▶ 37:02

“And I didn't know how many of his girlfriends would be on board or how long we'd be at sea. Joan divorced Molden in 1954, but as if to not disappoint her father, she quickly replaced him with another …”

Joan Dulles married Eugene Burek book_quoted ▶ 37:02

Joan Dulles divorced Fritz Molden book_quoted ▶ 37:02

CIA overthrew Mohammad Mosaddegh documented ▶ 38:03

“After the CIA overthrow of the Iranian Prime Minister Mosaddegh in 1953, Joan gave birth to two children, a boy and a girl. Like Fritz Molden, her second choice for a husband seemed crafted primarily …”

Allen Dulles headed CIA documented ▶ 38:32

“To have a son-in-law acting as his eyes and ears inside the Shah's court was a bonanza for Dulles by now running the CIA. But again, the marriage turned out to be much less beneficial for Joan. In 195…”

Joan Dulles divorced Eugene Burek book_quoted ▶ 38:32

Joan Dulles married John Talley book_quoted ▶ 40:37

“After she came back to Santa Fe, she married another therapist by the name of John Talley, where she lived and worked until his death in 2013. Mary Bancroft believed she had fallen in love with Alan D…”

William J. Donovan founded Office of Strategic Services caller_asserted ▶ 44:20

“I never finished the book, Wild Bill Donovan, the spymaster who created the OSS. But early on in that book, it brings up his extreme amount of extramarital affairs and how he would use it against his …”

Allen Dulles worked_for Sullivan & Cromwell host_asserted ▶ 48:15

“for the oligarchs. Because Alan Dulles was not at the top of that chain. I mean, he did it for the Sullivan and Cromwell customers. So it is like hiring a mass murderer that will go out and secure res…”