The Colonel’s Corner The Devil’s Chessboard Part 21

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0:00 Good afternoon, Colonel. Hello, how are you? Good, or is it warming up down in your neck of the woods? It is. Yay! It was freezing this morning. It got 50 degrees today, can I tell you? Yay! Can I get an amen? Yeah, that's like summertime, right? Right? Yeah, I'm not even sure. I'm sure it got in the 50s, but it started off in the 20s this morning.

0:32 But people are out here golfing. My son-in-law had to go to work today. I don't even pretend to understand that. That's funny. Sorry, I was sending out notifications. All right. Well, we're going to go ahead and get started. I know there will be a few people joining us. So let us get live over here on Rumble. Okay.

1:09 So we're on chapter 17, the parting glass. In the summer of 1963, President Kennedy flew to Europe for what would be the final overseas trip of his life. Although he had left Washington, the forces of political turmoil set loose by his presidency followed him abroad.

1:35 These forces came swirling together in Rome during JFK's official visit to the imperial capital, where tour guides still pointed out the stone steps on which Julius Caesar's blood was spilled. On July 1st, Kennedy was visiting with the Italian president Segni, S-E-G-N-I. Ma'am, can you throw SR also?

2:07 Sure. Thank you. At the Italian presidential palace. It had served as the residence of popes, kings, and chief of states since the 16th century. Segni paid tribute during his toast to Kennedy's recent peace speech at the American University. Kennedy's dynamic quest for peace, declared Segni.

2:44 was a welcome break from the static air of nuclear deadlock. Quote, war is not inevitable, and that an effective end to the arms race would offer greater security than its indefinite continuation. Invoking Italy's volatile political history, Kennedy warned of the, quote, siren temptation of those with seemingly swift and easy answers on the far right.

3:16 and the far left. Social justice and progress and human rights, said Kennedy, to make the more difficult ideals of democracy a reality for people all over the world. Kennedy's Italian itinerary, which included an audience with the Pope, John Paul VI, at the Vatican and a side trip to Naples,

3:45 was the finale to a triumphant European tour that was highlighted by the sentimental stopover in Ireland and his resounding challenge to Soviet tyranny at the Berlin Wall. The crowds in Rome that greeted Kennedy's motorcade were comparatively sparse as the presidential limousine and its motorcycle squadron made the long and winding trip to the eternal city.

4:15 But as the young president was taking the spotlight in Italy, the forces aligned against him were converging in Rome as well. Behind the elaborate festivities at the palace that night was an intense political drama, one with international ramifications. Since the mid-1950s, Italy had been hotly debating the opening to the left.

4:42 Eisenhower officials had worried that if socialism were allowed into Italy's government, they would try to steer Rome on a neutral course, not a communist course, a neutral course between Washington and Moscow. And we have learned this one lesson repeatedly, you're not allowed to be neutral. This was dating back to its well-funded covert campaign to thwart

5:14 other party's victory in the country in 1948. That was the beginning of the Gladio deal, where it engaged in the usual schemes along with its allies to the Italian intelligence services to block the other party. The agency's anti-left strategy in Italy was spearheaded by Jim Angleton.

5:44 who with his deep personal roots in the country, had turned Rome into a key Cold War battleground. Eisenhower administration's resistance was further enforced by Claire Booth Luce, Ike's ambassador to Rome. And of course, this goes back to the whole $35 million in election interference and all of that.

6:10 It was author Schlesinger who convinced President Kennedy to break with Eisenhower's policy and support Italy's opening to all parties in the country. He would be quoted as saying, my impression is that they have honestly broken with communists, i.e. it's not actually communist. It was more about workers' rights. Schlesinger had his own sentimental attachment to Italy dating back to his boyhood when his father

6:43 offered sanctuary in Harvard's history department to anti-Mussolini exile Savamini, an Italian socialist politician and historian. Angleton was so furious about the new tilt in favor of an open government that he began telling people that Schlesinger was a Soviet agent. Because, of course, that works every single time. You know, if you say any history at all that's factual, you're a Putin stooge today.

7:16 Meanwhile, former Ambassador Luce lobbied fanatically against this opening, dashing off a long, somewhat incoherent letter to JFK in February of 1963, filled with random observations about a growing threat in Rome. Quote, Italy's pro-West government has had one foot on the Moscow banana pill for 17 years. There literally could be nothing further from the truth.

7:48 She went on to say if the pro-communist socialists were brought into power, the Italian Communist Party will negotiate Italy's future with the USSR. Luce concluded by warning the president not to fall into a left-wing trap during his visit to Rome. Quote, in the present climate, there is a real possibility you may be embarrassed by an enthusiastic reception you will get from the communists.

8:17 I can see the banners now. But, and basically it's an Italian saying of Kennedy is with Khrushchev. Frustrated by the stubborn bureaucratic resistance that Kennedy was seething from within his own government to his shifting policy in Italy, Schlesinger sent the president an angry memo in January of 63. Quote, lest you think you run the US government, the Italy matter is still under debate, unquote.

8:47 Like you're really not in charge. But Kennedy eventually ignored the political pushback and embraced Italy's comprehensive government. He became so enamored with the idea of building a strong center-left coalition to anchor Italy's turbulent politics that he arranged for the United Auto Workers leader, Walter and Victor Reuther, to whom he had strong political ties to help fund the...

9:18 center-left party. JFK's trip to Rome gave him the opportunity to officially anoint a new opening. And again, in the case you guys still doesn't understand or think I'm even sliding this a little bit, this is really about unions and people's workers' rights to be able to be represented via a union, which supposedly were all for

9:48 on the left in the United States, but only as long as they're co-opted like the National Education Association. Okay, the longest conversation that Kennedy had that evening was with an old socialist warrior, Petro Nenni, N-E-N-N-I. The two of them huddled together on a little stage. The previous year, Nenni had tweaked the U.S. foreign policy establishment

10:18 with an essay in Foreign Affairs in which he defended the party's neutralist stand in the Cold War and attacked Western imperialism, charging U.S. and European governments for backing fascist-type dictatorships in the Third World. That's what they call a communist, guys. Someone who wants to be neutral, not communist, neutral, and was opposed to backing fascist...

10:48 dictatorships in the third world. That in the eyes of the CIA makes you a communist. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars in shoring up rotten situations doomed in any case to crumble, the Italian wrote. They had opened doors to communists instead of supporting democratic and socialist forces that would be capable of directing the impulse to freedom of the colonial people. In other words,

11:16 It was the U.S. policy that was pushing people into the communist camp, not the people themselves. Now, as a long line of other Italian politicians waited impatiently to speak to Kennedy, Nene was engaged in a conversation with an American president who had voiced these same sentiments. And his audience with Kennedy finally came to an end.

11:43 Nennie was absolutely enraptured and happy as he could be, according to a U.S. embassy official who was there. Stepping off the platform, the old man wrapped his arms around his wife and murmured something into her ear. As they walked away, he wiped tears from his eyes. Later, Nennie's wife told a group of American diplomats attending an event that her husband had been enchanted by JFK.

12:07 The leader was convinced that his political dream was about to come true. After years of determined U.S. resistance, Italy's Democrat left was going to have a part in the government. But Alan Dulles and his old cohorts at the CIA Rome station did not share the president's enthusiasm for an all-inclusive Italian political government. And they boldly communicated their dissent to the Christian Democratic officials.

12:36 This is a remarkable and until now unreported story that sheds new light on the growing fixtures in the Kennedy administration. Shortly after JFK flew home from Italy, Dino John Pionzio, the CIA's leading operator in Italy at the time, huddled with Serino Fiato, the administrative secretary to Aldo Moro, who was the prime minister at the time.

13:05 They would assassinate him too, by the way. He was a rising star in the Christian Democrat Party who would soon become Italy's prime minister. Pianzio was a skull and bone member at Yale class of 1950. And zealous cold warrior was adamantly opposed to opening to the left. The CIA wanted to know what Mauro

13:32 had discussed with Kennedy a few days early during an afternoon stroll that JFK and the Italian politician had taken through the garden. To his great dismay, Pianzio was told that Morrow and Kennedy had agreed that a united government would go forward. Dulles and the CIA felt that they had a proprietary relationship with the Christian Democrats ever since the Cold War.

14:00 war days when the agency began funneling money to the Italian party. Dulles himself had confirmed this relationship when he was CIA director during a secret meeting with Morrow that was held in the Rome office. Following that meeting, the Christian Democrat party became the beneficiary of CIA funds that arrived promptly on a monthly schedule. By the early 1960s, the party was receiving about $100,000 a month.

14:30 from the CIA. In the beginning, it was Frito who collected the cash in large suitcases, a duty that later fell to other administrative secretaries of the party. These monthly CIA payoffs to the party were in addition to all of the under-the-table contributions made from other sources. Pianzio meeting with Frito put the Christian Democrats on notice. Your buddy, Alliance.

15:00 with the socialists did not enjoy full support in Washington, particularly of the national security circles. Afterward, Morrow, who had received conflicting messages from Kennedy and the CIA within days of each other, could be forgiven if he was confused about who was actually running the U.S. government. Newsflash, it wasn't Kennedy. The CIA's attempt to subvert the United Government

15:29 was one more flagrant example of how the agency sought to undermine Kennedy's presidency as well as an Italian democracy. In November of 63, Aldo Moro finally formed a coalition government with the socialists, despite the less than enthusiastic reaction from the Christian Democrat patrons in the CIA. Socialist leaders hoped that the historic partnership would lead to a new golden age of social progress in Italy.

15:57 but their dreams were not fulfilled. Even before JFK's assassination on November 22nd, the diehard opponents of the unified government in the CIA and Italian intelligence services were actively conspiring to sabotage the Italian government. When William Harvey arrived in Italy in the summer of 63 to take over as the Rome station chief, the offensive began.

16:27 Bill Harvey was an odd choice for a Rome station chief on paper. He was the perfect choice for what was ahead. He had no knowledge of Italy at all. He spoke no Italian. He had no affinity for the Italian people at all. He didn't like them. He was a guy born and raised in a small.

17:00 Indiana town. Why is all these weirdos from Indiana? That's freaky. And had none of the cosmopolitan polish of his Ivy League bred CIA colleagues because he was a down in the dirt assassin, coup monger. Harvey had begun his intelligence career as an FBI gumshoe, but his drinking habits did not go down well with Jake.

17:29 J. Edgar Hoover. So we'll just ship him over to the CIA, you know, where all the alcoholics are. He was a pistol packing, blunt spoken, and not really a good fit for the proper CIA. But the agency could definitely find ways to use him. Dulles and Helms thought he had a cop mentality.

17:56 Harvey, in turn, dismissed the upper echelons as Fifth Avenue cowboys, and this is a quote, fucking namby-pambys. He was no hayseed. He felt obliged to remind his colleagues he had been raised by a single mother who became a full professor at Indiana State University, and he had a law degree. He liked to rattle the agency's Ivy League types during meetings.

18:27 by pulling out one of the many guns he owned, spinning its cylinder and checking the load. From his days as an FBI red hunter, when he was tracking down communists and fellow travelers in Washington, Harvey became convinced that high society was riddled with traitors. It is, but not the kind he's hunting. Harvey's class resentment no doubt played a role when he became the first CIA official.

18:59 to sniff out Kim Philby, the Cambridge-educated double agent that was stationed in Washington. At one of Philby's parties, Guy Burgess, the most flamboyant member of the Cambridge spy ring, drew a lewd, crotch-bearing caricature of Harvey's wife, Libby.

19:26 She had never fit in the CIA either. A drunken Harvey threw himself at Burgess and had to be pulled off of him by Angleton. Now that's probably something that I can share in common with the Indiana guy, being from Indiana myself. It was the Indiana cop who saw through Philby, not Angleton, who remained forever beguiled by his British friend. Angleton and Harvey was an odd couple in the counterintelligence.

19:55 a poet, and a cop. They alternately clashed and connived together throughout their entire career. Harvey Starr rose in the agency after he exposed Philby, and he was dispatched to the Cold War front lines in Germany, where he ran the CIA's Berlin station in the 50s, which would have put him there when the Detachment A guys were there.

20:22 His reputation continued to grow as he constantly searched for new ways to make the battle to the Soviet enemy more real. While in Germany, Harvey worked closely with Reinhard Galen, and the Galen came to consider him a very reliable friend. So in other words, he was intimately involved in Operation Gladio. The Berlin spy tunnel, an underground surveillance project that wormed its way through the cities to the Russian sector,

20:52 Permitting the CIA to eavesdrop on enemy communication was Harvey's most dramatic coup. Dulles, who had always had a soft spot for espionage theatrics, called Harvey's tunnel one of the most daring and valuable operations ever. But, as we know, the Soviets had quickly discovered the project and had began feeding it misinformation. Dulles, who needed action heroes to boost the agency's image,

21:20 helped turn him into a CIA legend, giving him medal after medal. Dulles brought Harvey back to Washington in 59, but then he had a second wife, Clara Grace Harvey, a vivacious woman who enjoyed her own successful career in the US military and CIA. She went by C.G. Harvey. She had secret assignments involved accompanying former

21:48 Nazi rocket scientists like Warner Van Braun and their families on flights to the U.S., where they were put to work on U.S. missiles and space projects. When Bill and CG, whom he called Mommy, that's sick, returned home, they brought with them their adopted daughter, Sally, whom they had found as an infant, yeah, I'm sure, when she was left in a cardboard box. Back in Washington, Harvey had

22:17 high ambitions. He wanted to run the agency's Soviet division, a top post that he thought he had earned. But the CIA elite, who continued to think of him as a cop, gave him tougher assignments. Dulles named Harvey, chief of the agency's Division D, the unit that was in charge of signal intelligence, gathering information about various electronic eavesdropping. You know, like Crypto AG. He was put in charge of Crypto AG.

22:48 which the CIA shared with the NSA. Crypto AG. They don't say it, but that's what it is. But Division D also seemed to have more mysterious functions. In October 1960, according to one agency document, Harvey made a trip to Europe that was largely intended for him to recruit criminal underground figures for secret CIA missions, like Operation Gladio.

23:15 Among those he sought out were safecrackers and break-in specialists. Harvey would soon be dealing with men whose skills were very violent. November 1961, Harvey was put in charge of a top-secret CIA operation to kill Castro called ZR Rifle. He quickly nudged aside Robert Mayhew, the independent contractor that had been running the racket in the Caribbean, and began working directly with the mafia and Johnny Roselli.

23:48 The prior cop, now CIA agent, and Roselli formed a tight bond. Harvey invited Roselli to dinner at his family's spacious Chevy Chase home, where little Sally took to calling him Uncle Johnny. The two men had secret rendezvous in Miami, where the CIA maintained its largest station, JM Wave.

24:18 and operated a network of paramilitary training bases as well as safe houses in posh Coral Gables and Key Biscayne neighborhoods. So Operation Gladio embedded in U.S. neighborhoods. Harvey provided Roselli with vials of poison, guns to pass along to mafia hired killers in Cuba.

24:44 Nothing ever came of the two men's Cuba schemes and Castro continued to thrive. But Harvey never lost faith in his mafia partner. Regardless of his criminal background, Roselli was a man of integrity as far as I was concerned, Harvey would be quoted as saying. To the Senate. I love Roselli, he said when he was interviewed.

25:11 When his wife, sorry, C.G. Harvey was interviewed in her Indianapolis retirement home in 1999. It was the year before she would die. My husband always used to say that if I had to ride shotgun, that's the guy I'd take with me. As he definitely was mafia and he definitely was a crook and he definitely had pulled off all kinds of stunts with the mafia, but he was a patriot. He believed in the U.S. and he knew my husband was a patriot too.

25:42 Just not for our team. In 1962, Helms, who along with Angleton, had replaced the retired Dulles as Harvey's main patrons at the agency, promoted agency tough guy, naming him to the head of the CIA's entire Cuban operation, Task Force W.

26:03 Helms and Harvey kept much of the operation, including their assassination efforts against Castro, a secret from President Kennedy, as well as CIA Director McComb. Harvey grew contemptuous of the Kennedy brothers, whom he regarded as rich boys who were playing with the nation's security. He concluded that their subversive program aimed at overthrowing Castro's regime called Operation Mongoose was all for show.

26:31 Harvey thought so little of JFK, of the man JFK had put in charge of Mongoose, Air Force officer Edwin Lansdale, that he would lift his ass in the middle of their meetings and let out a fart or pull out a knife and begin trimming his nails. Harvey came to hate Bobby Kennedy, the CIA overseer who was constantly nipping at their heels.

27:01 RFK browbeat Harvey so severely one day at a White House meeting on Cuba that Max Taylor later told the Attorney General, you can sack a town and enjoy it. Harvey took to calling RFK the fucker and began suggesting that some of the Attorney General's actions were treasonous. Bobby Kennedy and my husband were absolute enemies, C.J. Harvey would later say. Bobby was an idiot, according to C.J.

27:30 And he had no confidence in himself because his brother put him in a job that he was really not capable of handling. It made for a lot of stress for the people who were working in law enforcement. You know, because rounding up mafia people puts a lot of stress on law enforcement.

27:47 The tension between the two men finally exploded in October of 62 when Harvey schemed with the Pentagon to send a series of raiding parties into Cuba at the height of the missile crisis to pave a way for U.S. military invasion that the President hardliners wanted and he knew the President didn't. So again, they're trying to set up JFK. RFK was so outraged by Harvey's reckless behavior in the midst of a hair-triggering nuclear crisis.

28:15 He was quoted as saying, you're dealing with people's lives, the younger Kennedy brother said. And then you're going to go off on a half-assed operation such as this. Harvey's protectors acted quickly before Bobby Kennedy could axe him. Helms realized that he would have to relieve Harvey of the Cuban command and hustle him out of Washington. So where did they put him as they're getting ready to plan JFK's assassination? Oh, in Rome, home of Operation Gladio.

28:46 And that was Angleton's idea. Angleton thought the CIA station there had gone soft and was not doing enough to scoop Soviet skullduggery in the Eternal City where there was none. Helms and Angleton did not tell McComb, the actual CIA director, about moving Harvey to a new assignment until he was already in Rome.

29:17 Please tell me you understand the CIA does not work for the U.S. government. They knew that McComb was something of a snob and a Puritan and would not have approved. Many imperial agents of America would have regarded Rome as a dream assignment, but Harvey and his wife hated it. They were a lot fonder of Germany because it was full of Nazis. Bill despised the Italian people, who he called G.D. Waps.

29:49 CG complained about being constantly cheated by the locals whenever she went to the market and she didn't get used to navigating through the narrow cobblestone streets in the family's bulky Ford station wagon. I'll give her that one. They will cheat you. I had been going to a fruit stand for probably six months when I first moved to Italy, when I was living off, well, I lived off base the whole time. And I showed up one day with my landlady and

30:19 um because I had told them when I went to pay my rent that what I was paying for these little mandarin oranges and she was outraged and so she went with me and all I heard was her blah blah blah to the store owner and my fruit bill after that was like half price so they do do that once when CG was driving Sally and the daughter of another CIA officer

30:48 along the Appian Way on their way to the beach, I just don't understand why they don't bulldoze all of this and make it a freeway. And this to me is one of the craziest things ever. I've driven back on the Appian Way several times because it was the only way to get from Brindisi, the big city near where we were, to Naples and Rome. And I had a really good friend in Rome and Naples is where our medical center was.

31:18 And it's the most beautiful countryside. And like I told you guys, the roads over there, no one dares drives on the left-hand side. They're so easy to drive on. You have to drive like 100 miles an hour, but they're beautiful. There's mountains. You have to drive through a mountain range. It's just absolute beautiful. So these people obviously are idiots. Okay, CG also felt besieged by enemies. She claimed that the people...

31:47 in a compound near the Harvey's villa threw rats over the wall into their garden. Probably because they were nasty neighbors. According to CG, one of her husband's less savory tasks was procuring prostitutes for President Kennedy while he was in Rome. When Jack was in Rome visiting the embassy, my husband was assigned two men along with Secret Service men who were protecting him. And these men were required to get Italian prostitutes.

32:18 I don't believe any of that. They just hated JFK. It's highly unlikely the president would have relied on a notoriously anti-Kennedy CIA officer to do any of that. They would have completely distrusted him. Nor had Harvey even taken command of the Rome operation by the time Kennedy's visit. He wasn't there.

32:51 That's all made up bullshit. While stationed in Rome, the Harveys were quartered in a lovely villa. I've been to some of the State Department people's houses in Rome. They're amazing. They spent a lot of time and money redecorating the house in poor taste, said one of Harvey's deputies. If the Harveys were stereotypical ugly Americans, Wyatt and his wife

33:20 were ideal representatives of the U.S. That's his deputy. The Wyatts, who had fallen in love with Rome after the war, when they were both young CIA agents, were enchanted with the city, spoke fluent Italian. Anne Wyatt took her three children on tours of Rome, tracking down Caravaggio and other masters at the galleries and churches. One night, the Wyatts bumped into Marcello.

33:47 Mastiani at a restaurant and brought home his autograph. Mark Wyatt, who enjoyed good relations with local officials, was supposed to act as a buffer between Harvey and his CIA counterparts. But Harvey soon bullied his way into a China shop and began throwing his bulk around. Italian military intelligence unit SIFAR, S-I-F-A-R, which was part of Gladio, had a long, subservient relationship with the CIA.

34:17 providing the Americans with the results of their spying on political figures and partnering with the U.S. on Operation Gladio, the secret stay-behind-Army program to resist quote-unquote left-wing advances in Europe. So this book even mentions Operation Gladio. But now Harvey pushed CIFAR officials to take even more aggressive action. The CIA station chief urged Colonel Renzo Rocha.

34:47 a top CIFAR counter-espionage chief, to sabotage partnerships that had gained momentum after Kennedy's visit. Harvey pushed Rocha to take his action squads, Gladio cells, to carry out bombings of Christian Democrat Party offices and newspapers, terrorist acts that were to be blamed on the left. Operation Gladio, dictated by the CIA station chief.

35:18 in Italy. Wyatt was no shrinking violet when it came to covert action. He had served as a CIA bag man during the 48 elections in Italy, handling the suitcases full of cash. Later, Wyatt was one of the main liaison agents between CIA and Gladio, frequently visiting secret Gladio headquarters on the island of Sardinia. We already know that.

35:50 But this is going to be very important. Nor was Wyatt one of the delicate desk heroes who had never risked his life. Now, keep in mind, Sardinia is where Otto Skorzeny would come and train. Gladio operators. So we're basically saying this entire group knew each other.

36:15 Wyatt had grown up on farm country in Sacramento, picking fruit after school. During the war, he had served as a young Navy officer in the South Pacific. His ship was attacked by a Japanese submarine and kamikaze planes. He had seen people die. But Wyatt had his limits when it came to carrying out Harvey's orders. Not only did Bill Harvey see nothing wrong with violating Italian sovereignty, but he saw murder as a legitimate political tool.

36:44 One day, Wyatt was stunned to hear his boss propose recruiting mafia hitmen to kill Italian officials. When Wyatt objected to his extreme suggestion, Harvey flew into a rage. During one angry showdown between the two men, Harvey pulled a gun on Wyatt. Harvey's secret efforts to subvert Italy's new government reached a climax in 1964. General Giovanni di Lorenzo

37:13 former CIFAR director and chief of the carabinieri, which is their paramilitary police, their national police, threatened to overthrow the government and arrest hundreds of politicians unless socialist officials agreed to abandon their reform proposals and accept a weaker government role. The national police, like the FBI director, telling the people that they were going to overthrow the government. Elderly Nende, the guy who JFK met with,

37:45 who had suffered exile and imprisonment under Mussolini's reign, harbored deep anxieties about this fascist revival in Italy, and he quickly gave in to General Di Lorenzo's demand. Wyatt later insisted that he had no involvement in the coup plot, but Di Lorenzo was widely considered a stooge of the CIA, and there is little doubt that Harvey played a huge role in intimidating the Italian democracy.

38:14 By then, Kennedy was dead and could not protect Italy's fragile experiment as he intervened against the French military punch in 61. When Nenni anxiously asked Schlesinger, who visited Rome in 64, whether the new American president, LBJ, could be counted on to continue JFK's policies, Schlesinger gave the man a chilling truth.

38:42 Mark Wyatt was attending a meeting at the Gladio base in Sardinia with Bill Harvey when he heard President Kennedy had been shot. They were at a Gladio terrorist training camp, Harvey and Wyatt, during that operation. When the telex arrived in the early evening, Wyatt found Harvey collapsed in bed.

39:13 following a late afternoon round of drinks. After Wyatt managed to rouse him, the CIA station chief blurted out some provocative remarks about the events in Dallas that deeply disturbed Wyatt for the rest of his life. According to his three children, Wyatt, who died in 2006 at 86, would always suspect that Harvey had prior knowledge of Kennedy's assassination.

39:40 His son, Wyatt's son, my dad would sometimes talk about Harvey in the context of Kennedy's assassination. He talked about the connection between Harvey and the mafia, not just his involvement with Johnny Roselli, but in the mafia in Italy, which means Gladio. Those connections in Italy worried my father a lot.

40:02 Wyatt's suspicion about his Rome boss was so strong that his daughter Susan encouraged him to testify before the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 78, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. My father really believed in the CIA. He really wanted to believe in it. He was loyal to it despite all of its flaws, and he didn't want to do anything to hurt it. But Wyatt continued to be haunted by Harvey and the Kennedy assassination late into his life.

40:33 In 1989, when a French investigative journalist named Faboiso Calvi came to interview Wyatt about Operation Gladio at his retirement home in California's Lake Tahoe, the former CIA official felt compelled to raise the subject out of the blue. As Calvi was leaving, as we were walking out to my car, Wyatt suddenly said, you know,

41:01 I've always wondered what Bill Harvey was doing in Dallas in November of 1963. Calvey said, excuse me? And the stunned French journalist who realized that Harvey's presence in Dallas that month was extremely noteworthy. Wyatt exclaimed that he had bumped into Harvey on a plane to Dallas sometime before the assassination. And when he asked his boss why he was going there, Harvey said vaguely.

41:32 I'm here to see what's happening. When Calvey tried to pursue the conversation, Wyatt cut it off abruptly as he had started it and said goodbye. Calvey himself had forgot about it until years later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Harvey was in Dallas in November of 1963, said House Assassination Committee investigator Dan Hardway, who was assigned by the panel to probe possible CIA connections to JFK's murder.

42:03 We considered Harvey to be one of our prime suspects from the very start. He had all the key connections, organized crime, CIA station chief in Miami where the plots to kill Castro were run, other prime CIA suspects like David Phillips. We tried to get Harvey's travel vouchers and security files, but the CIA would not release them. So you have a guy that is intimately involved in Operation Gladio.

42:32 sitting at one of their command centers in Sardinia on the day JFK is killed, who visited Dallas beforehand, which is what an Advan team would do, an advanced team that is sent in to case the area and plan the event. And the CIA wouldn't let anybody see the travel vouchers to verify that.

43:03 But we did come across a lot of memos that suggested he was traveling a lot in the months leading up to the assassination. More recent legal efforts by the author to obtain Harvey's travel records also proved fruitless. Decades and decades and decades of lies. CIA officials later talked about Harvey's stint in Rome as a sad exile for a once illustrious agent. A drunken last stand before his shameful exit from the agency.

43:35 But that's not how Harvey himself or his deputy regarded his Rome interlude. Harvey saw himself at the center of action, crawling through the criminal underworld, stockpiling weapons, conspiring with Italian security officials. In short, doing whatever was necessary for the cause of freedom. As for Wyatt, he saw his boss as a dangerous character rather than a figure of note, a man.

44:03 who he would always suspect as playing a deeply sinister role in American history. If Rome was filled with the greatest amount of political intrigue during JFK's final tour of Europe, then his four-day stopover in Ireland in late June of 1963 brimmed with the greatest emotion for Kennedy. There was no compelling reason for him to go to Ireland. He was told that it was a waste of time.

44:31 You've got all the Irish votes in the country. You'll never get any more. It would just be a pleasure trip. He saw no political advantage to it. For Kennedy, whose eight grandparents had all left Ireland for Boston, part of the heartbreaking depopulation of Ireland under British colonial rule, returning to Ireland was a homecoming and a farewell. The first U.S. president to visit Ireland and then...

45:00 Irish won at that. He was embraced by the Irish people overwhelmingly. There were crowds everywhere. Secret Service had warned local officials that Kennedy should be kept a safe distance from the crowd, but Kennedy ignored it. He went into the groups of people who people were just like, they were in tears. They were so excited for him to be there.

45:25 From the time he stepped off the plane at Shannon Airport, it was love at first sight. He fell in love with Ireland more and more after four days. The Irish people fell in love with him. Ireland was still poor, still divided by religion and British rule, still exporting its sons and daughters across the ocean. But for JFK, it was a shining symbol of Irish success. The trip brought out Kennedy's wit.

45:54 He told jokes every place that he went. He asked if there were any Kennedys in the crowd and was thrilled when there were. Kennedy had done his homework before the trip, reading and memorizing deeply into Ireland's cultural heritage. He knew the words were the key to the nation's heart as far as their national song.

46:24 In February, when he was preparing for his Ireland trip, Kennedy had even invited the Clancy Brothers, a popular Irish singing group, to perform for him at the White House. The folk group ended all of their concerts with the traditional song, The Parting Glass, an achingly beautiful tune that captured all of Irish farewells down through the years. He was very conscious of his heritage and proud of it.

46:53 JFK said that the emotional highlight for him had been the visit to Arbor Hill, the hallowed ground for Irish people. It is where the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising, who had been executed by the British at a jail, were laid to rest. Kennedy, who placed a wreath on their graves, was the first foreign head of state to honor the martyrs of Irish nationalism.

47:25 rising against the mighty British Empire. He had grilled all of the people in preparation for his trip about that topic. During a speech, he made clear that Kennedy's sympathies lie in Ireland's long struggle for independence, a struggle that continued in Northern Ireland where the British still held sway.

47:52 Kennedy was quoted as saying, for every nation knows that Ireland was the first of the small countries in the 20th century to win its struggle for independence. By standing up to foreign domination, Ireland is the example and inspiration to those enduring endless years of oppression. As Schlesinger noted, Kennedy's speeches stirred the forces of freedom around the world, which made him extra dangerous to the CIA.

48:24 accomplishment of Americanization of the world was far deeper and subtler than any of John Foster Dulles. Not a world Americanized in the sense of adopting platitudes, but a world Americanized in the perception and rhythm of life. JFK conquered the tempo of this movement. But if Kennedy's presidency gave rise to dreams, it also triggered fear and reaction.

48:55 to the Cold War establishment and other bastions of the old guard. JFK was not a charismatic symbol of change. He was a threat. It was clear by this point in his embattled presidency why Kennedy was so enthralled by legends of Irish martyrs. Their death were his own death foretold. As he prepared for his trip to Ireland, Kennedy had come under the spell of an Irish poem about a fallen leader from the days gone by.

49:26 named Eowyn Rule O'Neill, reciting its verses so often in the White House that they stuck in the staff members' heads. The poem by an early 19th century Irish patriot and poet, Thomas Davis, who himself died young at age 30 as a lament for a beloved assassinated leader poisoned by the treacherous agents of British villainry. Kennedy's trip.

49:57 To his ancestral homeland was a celebration, but also a mourning. The melancholy note hovered over the ceremonial events, a sense of past and future lost. Even as Kennedy tried to keep spirits high on his final day in Ireland and bidding farewell to the crowd at Limerick, Kennedy promised that he would return in the springtime. The same promise made by millions of other young Irish men and women as they left their dearest ones for distant shores.

50:26 Kennedy's days in Ireland was the happiest of his presidency. The trip meant more to him than any other in his life, Jackie wrote. I will bring up my children to be proud of their Irish heritage, she went on to tell the president of Ireland. Jackie, who was pregnant at the time, had not made the trip. She would later say, I know we were all so blessed to have him as long as we did.

50:55 but I will never understand why God had to take him now. Well, we do because Alan Dulles decided that was the time. That's it for today. That's the end of that chapter. Comments? Go ahead, SR. Thank you, Colonel, and thank everyone for being here on Rumble and on Spaces today. This is absolutely great. I'm sitting here listening to all of this going on, seeing where he's traveling.

51:40 His travels to Ireland, particularly, I mean, and then we have, along with that, you have Pietro Sandro from Italy, who was a known fascist, by the way. So he's trying to make inroads with the rest of the world, and we have the CIA trying to kill him. Yeah.

52:11 It just blows my mind. The tunnel, by the way, the tunnel itself, the Berlin Tunnel, which it was known what was going on. And of course, the Soviet Union was on to it and the whole nine yards. The way I understand that got broken, the news was because once they figured, well, they knew they were doing this for a while. It was an easy out to go ahead and publicize it the minute it was found. Yeah, it was Americans way of saying, oh.

52:42 See, we tried and we got caught. But out of all of this, we got bigger fish to fry. But if you go back and you look at the news, they never told us, Americans, that the Soviets knew about it the entire time and they did. They passed it off as this big to-do that they had got away with it for all of this time. The Soviets knew about it the entire time.

53:16 It's crazy. It's just another propaganda thing to warrant our continued funding of covert operations. All along, go ahead. Hi, Carl. Sorry. Yeah, lots of stuff to ponder in this chapter, no doubt. Oh, boy. But so I might as well start it. I made a list.

53:52 So I just thought it would be interesting to point out, we mentioned, you mentioned Schlesinger at the beginning of the show, and he is an interesting character. You know, he's kind of like Walter Reuther. There's kind of like two different Schlesingers. Correct. Correct. And what I mean by that is like.

54:16 you always hear from the highly controlled left that these are bad guys because they, you know, from the notorious 1947 purges of the communists and alleged communists, and this enabled the Cold War. And there's a serious degree of truth in that comment, right? Because without question, you know, American labor compromised.

54:45 in a huge way, with ongoing, this oncoming, what would be called McCarthyism, but as we both know, just came straight out of the CIA State Department, and you can almost call it, even before the CIA, it's formed the CIA State Department, because of the influence of this so-called Riga group in the State Department, that is the group that just smacked, what do we call it, out of the...

55:13 vice presidency when it really mattered in 1944 Henry Wallace and put in Truman because they knew they couldn't draw all over him and they did and I think that that part of that kind of like slow learner aspect of Harry is like fuck what the hell happened because he was put in there as their blank slate yeah he was he didn't have a he didn't have foreign policy experience really at all right and that's that's what they enjoy that's why they put him there yes so that go ahead

55:46 I'm sorry. So the CIA can more efficiently become the government under Harry Truman than they could under any other possible president. And so but the interesting thing on the controlled fake left or for me, it's interesting. And I think it's kind of interesting as far as how communication, political communication is like rigged across the whole spectrum is, you know, these guys actually had some.

56:17 Pretty darn interesting things to say about, you know, this 1963 to 1968 period, both Schlesinger and Reuther. And but since they're so dangerous, the effect on the fake control left is because I remember Noam Chomsky saying, oh, Schlesinger was a court historian for the Kennedys and cannot in anything he says cannot be trusted. Right.

56:46 Hold on. Meanwhile, the entire fucking government is this CIA court, and Chomsky's pretending it's still on the old side of the Potomac. That's the kind of fake leftist. Well, and the thing that this book calls out to that point is the entire time Schlesinger was there, he attended all of their parties. He was one of them. Right. Yeah. It's so enigmatic because you can almost see this, like, dorky professor.

57:15 You know, he's who was considered like kind of like the Eleanor Roosevelt, like sweetie branch of the Democrats. Right. And with her pal Adlai, his pal Adlai. But he's actually like, OK, yeah, he's not exactly fitting in at the Maryland parties, but he's definitely there. He's definitely there. Yeah. In a certain sense, he's he might be a little odd by, you know, plagues. Definitely. But nevertheless, to just say.

57:42 Therefore, all of his comments on the Kennedy years, when this is the guy who actually planned the rewrite of the CIA, that's kind of noteworthy that our leading fake leftist, who's now been revealed as many other things, perhaps, is saying such a comment. And of course, all of the fake leftists religiously, completely, and again, I call them fake leftists because they are claiming to.

58:10 of concern to the working class. And yet it's between 1963 and 1968 that the CIO, which was the lowest paid part of the AFL-CIO, which was a Cold War shotgun marriage, you know, by the CIA, but the CIA was punked by that marriage. You know what I mean? And so between 63 and 68 is the CIO part of it under...

58:33 leadership of walter orther you know demanding more equality within that marriage and then finally splitting the marriage and then there are three assassinations yeah our fake leftists will not they they will sooner you know they will never say a single word about the 1968 rfk campaign right because the reason their rent is paid is to get everyone to never look there right because every block of the democrats ever since falls right it's it's a in my mind it is not even close

59:03 It is the most censored event in U.S. history. But sorry, I've been blathering too long. I'll let others check. Okay. Travis, go ahead. Colonel, I was just going to ask you, when you have time, if you could check and see if you still have the dead aid links, because on my end, they've all been deleted. And the original site.

59:35 The alumni site says classified compartmentally sensitive. Travis, let me first say I'm sorry, because I looked through a whole bunch of my DMs, and I couldn't remember who had sent it to me. I'm going to check while we're on here. That's hysterical. After one Alpha Warrior show? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. This morning.

1:00:07 All my DMs disappeared. All right. On my end, I have no conversation with you at all. I have no messages in my DMs. Oh, that's funny. Three videos that I posted this morning, while I was looking at them, disappeared. They don't exist. Okay. While I was looking at them. So I got pretty nervous.

1:00:40 Just wanted to check. No, I still have mine. Let me see if the website works. Okay. That's funny. So they're on to you, not me. Yeah. All right. Let me see. Let me see if I can pull it up. No, I can still see it. Okay. One of the videos that I had posted that.

1:01:29 I actually got a message that it has been classified top secret and I'm no longer allowed to view it because that's not my department. But the video, I was in the video. Do you remember which one it was? I was there. Do you remember which video it was? Let's see. I wrote it down.

1:02:06 Oh, it was a video interviewing people for CIA-contracted PMC that wanted to hire me and some other people, some other veterans that I know, for a black site in New Mexico. They offered me $51,000 a week to be in charge of security. All right, I'll look for it.

1:02:41 And I had the video. It wasn't classified before I posted it. I checked. Not classified. Now it says it is. Okay, that's all. Okay, thank you. Alina, go ahead. Hey, Colonel. I have one comment on Piano Solo, and then we can get around. If you're entertaining comments outside of the book today,

1:03:12 Obviously, there's been a lot of news over the past, you know, four or five days. But I just think that piano solo kind of is your smoking gun, that the presidency doesn't really control the administrative states. The CIA Rome office obviously went rogue. And all of the major players that would later show up in some of the other Operation Gladio events.

1:03:41 particularly James Angleton. I think Tom Karamasins was either there during Piano Solo or there slightly after. He's another player, particularly in Latin America. He was there either during or during the aftermath of it.

1:04:02 The president doesn't control the CIA. That's the bottom line. And by piano solo, for those of you who have not followed us this whole time, that is the 1964 event that he's referring to that we just talked about. Yeah, that had CIFAR involved in it.

1:04:31 Bill Harvey was involved in it. Vernon Walters was involved in it. Yeah, so absolutely. It isn't mentioned in Vernon Walters' autobiography either. He talks about Italy. He doesn't talk about this. Yeah, he was dead smack in the middle of it. Yeah, well, it probably wouldn't have got out of the CIA's approval process if he'd have mentioned it.

1:05:03 And then like we talked about, Aldo Moro becomes the prime minister and he's murdered after being kidnapped by, it was originally blamed on the Red Brigade, but it was not. It was an Operation Gladio event as well. So the CIA has been involved in Italian affairs for a very long time.

1:05:33 election interference for the new CIA in 1948, and it continued on the entire time because it was a hotbed of Operation Gladio, to include the island of Sardinia. It comes up in so many of the Gladio events. Okay, who else? All along? Go ahead. Yeah, Colonel, you just mentioned the Aldo Mora.

1:06:06 that was kind of like the kind of essence, at least in the media, of what the U.S. public knows from the broad subset of stuff that we might call like Italian gladio of the 1970s, right? People hear about them, but when it's decontextualized from all the bombings and shit, which we now know were part and parcel of NATO and CIA strategy.

1:06:35 done through Italian locals, P2, et cetera, which was still a CIA project anyway. It was Gladio. Yeah, and also P2. But P2 is part of Gladio. Right, right, right. Absolutely. But it's just, holy cow, what a coincidence that this JFK-Mora meeting happened in 1963.

1:07:04 And it's it I had forgotten this part of the book because, you know, it's been a while since I read it. But, you know, what you call it, what Angleton and it sounds like Angleton and Harvey were both like, what the fuck? How we want to know what JFK and Maura are said in 63. And then when it's Maura kind of offed.

1:07:32 at the height of congressional inquiry into the JFK assassination in 77, 78. Right. Yep. So that, that's kind of, you know, that was a time when there actually was media coverage of this. So people ended up in barrels, but it was in mainstream media, you know, that's a key, key fundamental historical difference between now and then that we're really seeing in the, in the JFK assassination.

1:08:01 and especially in the contrast in perception since the Internet, the way in which the Internet really, truly benefits CIA, because the opposition that's contrary to what the CIA wants everybody to hear can say stuff, but it can reach like four people in a parakeet, you know?

1:08:24 That's ultimate victory before the public is able to vote on anything. It's way upstream. It's upstream media control, which is what's so evil about our current CIA media ecology. Because it's only by Noam Chomsky not talking about CIA that Democrats could become 100% CIA. So I'm going to push back a little bit on that, though. Okay. While there are obviously accounts like ours that...

1:08:52 are throttled when we talk about stuff like this. There is a much broader group of people, and while they may not delve as deep as we do into the reasons why, I would say that the internet has provided and social media has provided just like what we're seeing in Minnesota right now. They can't hide anymore.

1:09:19 The stuff in Minnesota would have went down as some blanket leftist, quote unquote, communist effort to destabilize the United States. But within hours, everybody that's been involved in that, the politicians, all of them are being exposed. And that would have never happened.

1:09:44 40 years ago. It would have been 20 years before we found out any of that information if we ever found out. So there's a cutting edge that goes both ways today. And just today, all of the...

1:10:04 Australian and British newspapers coming out saying that, you know, Putin's in the Epstein things a thousand times and there's no compromising material, but he's a Putin agent now. And everybody is pushing back on that. So they just can't get away with what they used to. But you're right from the perspective that

1:10:30 They throttle people that provides the in-depth analysis of it, but it's still not working. SR, go ahead. Thank you, Colonel. And I agree. The internet today has given us so much. And even though all along is...

1:10:59 somewhat correct about what's going on the answer is is that in in them using it is they can't afford to get rid of it they cannot afford to get rid of it because of what's going on today and I'll give you a prime example right now we've got them hollering and screaming about age verification you can get on a VPN to Brussels it won't ask you for your age yeah why

1:11:31 Yep. Thank you, Colonel. Sure. Illini, go ahead. Hey, Colonel. Yeah, obviously the Epstein files, you know, are, you know, kind of shaking a lot of different assumptions out there. You know, beyond, of course, you know, the work that, you know, you've done, you know, exposing that the CIA was Jeffrey Epstein was using N numbers that came from the CIA for his plane.

1:11:59 as well as Kathy Rumler. One of the things that I thought was interesting was there's this lady named Catherine Reynolds that Epstein was mailing all these packages to. He was getting Federal Express bills for mailing sometimes 15-pound packages to this Kathy Rumler.

1:12:26 who apparently shows up in a 60 Minutes piece back in 2003 for hosting Clinton, Benazir Bhutto, Kissinger, all these other people. And he's mailing all these packages to her office in McLean, Virginia. So I just found it fascinating.

1:12:53 Who knows what's in these things? I don't know if it's media or something else. But they're not in his emails, really. Kathy Reynolds later shows up because she wants to get involved with Bitcoin payment systems. And then you've also got, obviously, Kissinger.

1:13:22 is getting invited to a number of these different meetings, including to his home on the islands. You've got meetings also between Kathy Rumler and Anthony Scaramucci. I think there was an April 5th, 2019 meeting that he booked with Scaramucci. And then the heartbreaking thing for me,

1:13:50 There's a book that I have that's on the bookshelf that I kind of was willing to use kind of as a reference book, and now I'm going to have to kind of move it a little bit closer to Kissinger's autobiography, was Edward J. Epstein's The Assassination Chronicles. Edward J. Epstein shows up in the book, I'm sorry, in the...

1:14:14 And he covered, you know, the JFK assassination. And for a while I thought, OK, this guy's probably decent, at least for documenting, you know, and as a reference and everything. Turns out he shows up, you know, in the Epstein emails and he winds up going to go get a hot dog, you know, with Jeffrey Epstein, along with Michael Wolff. Oh, God. The guy who did that hit book on Trump, Fire and Fury.

1:14:43 Yeah, he definitely needs to be moved closer to Kissinger. Well, we'll see what comes out at the end of the day. I haven't written him off yet, but I just find it very disturbing that they're grabbing hot dogs back in 2013 before Epstein becomes a household name. And God knows what hot dogs mean. Yes. So let me just make everybody aware if you didn't see my post on Rumler.

1:15:13 She's bragging in the emails to Epstein that she was awarded the highest CIA level. And I checked everything that I pulled on the CIA that I have saved in folders. I even asked for different AI systems. The CIA does not give awards to people that are not part of the CIA, either administratively or operational.

1:15:42 That is a stake in the heart of Rumbler. She is CIA. There's no exceptions to that. No AI machine can find it. I can't find it. The only thing that even came close, as I said in my post, was the Alabama National Guard, and they were operationally under the control of the CIA. So that is her admitting.

1:16:13 that she works for the CIA. So just keep that in mind going forward. Rumbler is CIA. Yeah, I agree. And I just, I'm amazed at the ease in which, because again, just like I keep going back, and I'm sorry I harp on this, but just like that CIA guy and that author.

1:16:43 whatever his name was, Perzelli or whatever, that was on that show with Laura Logan. There was so many unforced errors in that show for anybody that has delved into the CIA as deeply as we have. So many unforced errors of information that's 100% provably false that they were spewing.

1:17:07 And they think you're just stupid. They think they can talk about this stuff and you're not going to check the facts. It is 100% disinformation, propaganda, whatever you want to call it, because they literally think we're stupid. Well, we're not stupid anymore. And we're building an army of not stupid people. I think the other tell on this is, you know, all the invites that Kissinger got to all of this.

1:17:40 You know, if you look back to, I mean, what happened with the Franklin scandal, I think Kissinger winds up showing up, not necessarily in the main text of what happened in Omaha, but he winds up getting implicated in interviews between, I think, Paul Bonacci and Ted Gunderson, if I recall correctly.

1:18:03 And then you've also got, you know, Lyndon LaRouche making those allegations back in the early 80s as well about Kissinger and Paterasti. So if you take a look at the different players in the Franklin scandal, which I think is always a pretty good foundation for at least kind of setting the

1:18:33 I mean, Craig Spence and the Larry King of Nebraska scandal sets the historical foundation for what is happening today. And when you've got Kissinger there, when you've got Bush getting implicated, when you've even got Clinton, who's in those circles back with Iran-Contra, getting implicated in all of this.

1:19:02 you can tell that Kissinger's presence gives you a really strong hint that this is Gladio. Now, the European news outlets who are all, you know, ironically citing, you know, quote-unquote security officials, so you can kind of tell where the story's coming from, they're all going to try to argue that Kissinger must have been, like, Russian or something like that. But I think there's enough links here.

1:19:29 Yeah. Showing that this goes back to U.S. officials. Yes. And the big question, like what everybody should be asking the European news media is, OK, well, the CIA kind of knew this was going on. You know, Clinton was obviously involved. Prince Andrew was involved. Why was this allowed to happen in the U.S. jurisdiction if this was all a KGB operation?

1:19:55 I mean, remember when, you know, when Trump, you know, got involved with the whole Moscow thing or whatever, I mean, when they made all those allegations about, you know, Trump in Moscow, that stuff landed, like, you know, fast. Like, why didn't any of that get exposed here? Why wasn't Epstein arrested back in, like, 2003? Like, what's up with that?

1:20:21 And that's the question that we should be asking and that we should be trying to expose to, you know, the European consumers of all this news. And I think they're going to have a real problem trying to explain that. So that's my whole thing with these idiots on social media who only talk about Israel in the Mossad.

1:20:48 There's no doubt that Epstein was tied to MI6, Mossad, and the CIA. And if you want to make the argument that it was 100% just the Mossad, you have to explain how the CIA missed it, how the CIA didn't expose it. How was he not then arrested as being a spy?

1:21:16 in the United States against the United States government? And what the fuck are we spending tens of billions of dollars on an intelligence agency that has a foreign operative, whether it KGB or Mossad, whichever one you want to pick on any given day, how does he operate for decades and decades of child trafficking and God knows what else, weapons trafficking and everything else that we've exposed?

1:21:45 And the CIA never knew it. You can't make that argument. That doesn't happen in the United States without the CIA knowing it. And then that makes the CIA complicit in it at the very least, if not an official player in it at the very most. I agree with you completely. All along. Yeah. Picking up on that, Colonel.

1:22:18 I think we need to remember, like, you know, the kind of long origins of what today is called the neocons. And, you know, today the neocons is very closely associated with Zionists, primarily Zionists, in a kind of Israel-focused strategic objective. And as we know, if you look at the longer history of the neocons, that is...

1:22:45 at least in part, highly deceptive. Because the whole shtick about the neocons was, look, we're going to use Israel as increasingly the center of U.S. domestic politics because it's easier to divide opposition that way. It's like an icebreaker, you know, up where it's 45 below zero in the Arctic Circle. It cripples opposition. We're seeing that every day.

1:23:14 But it was also a strategic Middle East position. And the later it gets in neocon, the more it seems only Israel. But I mean, look, compare the number, the amount of protests against the Iraq war and against the 1990 Gulf War, 1991 Gulf War. You can see that the psychological warriors running U.S. policy have done their homework.

1:23:42 They now have small, isolated protests that are at each other's throats. We are, you know, living in the belly of Gladio, you know, at a domestic level. And we see that with the change, with the evolution of neocons from to the deceptive way it is today, where it seems only Zionist, but it's a long-running strategic objective associated with folks like Dick Cheney for a very long time.

1:24:11 But also, I just wanted to, regarding the text, the William Harvey stuff is fascinating for a number of ways, because, you know, we have this kind of two different CIAs that are presented in the media. One is like Pope's, you know, I meant to say pipe smoking, Tweety Post, you know, the, you know, kind of Angletonian mother who maybe had maybe a four martini lunch at times.

1:24:40 led to bad experimental poetry at Yale or something. And eventually that turned, but cost JFK his life. But the thing is, there's also this kind of like other faction that is kind of in the more kind of Indiana boys mode as kind of pointed out to Harvey and both exist and can be used.

1:25:09 to defend the CIA from different audiences, right? Yes, yes. It's kind of their images that are kind of, we hear them all the time, and yet look at how Harvey functioned both in Florida, in the Miami context, and in the Rome context. It's fascinating because, you know, it's a time when RFK was trying to get kind of the Cuba ops under his thumb in Operation Mongoose, which is a very deeply misunderstood thing.

1:25:35 The way that I understand it now, having also read, you know, the Cuban historian Fabian Escalante, who's critical on this, not that he's the, you know, a truthful, you know, a spitting pure truth, of course not. But the thing is, you've got to, when examining the Cuba operations between 61 and 60, 60 and 63, you've got to, you know, you've got to have, you know, a foundation for the bridge on both sides of the water and others too.

1:26:04 It's complicated. But one of the great things about Harvey, he kind of makes it complicated. Because on the one hand, Talbot is portraying him as having conflicts with, of all people, our good friend, you know, Mr. What am I thinking about? Angleton. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, he didn't say he had conflicts with him. He just replaced him. Right. Okay.

1:26:35 Well, see, to me, these guys are joined are very, very similar in person. Yes, they are. And they're kind of like at the essence of when like when Mayhew dropped out of the FBI and there's like three years deliberate fuzz up. And then he's in the CIA between, you know, he's presented as a Howard Hughes guy, blah, blah, blah. But he's definitely he's the middleman with the gangsters in a variety of a different assassination plot. Right. So.

1:27:05 Meanwhile, RFK is cutting back on the Cuba operations. This is my general assessment of having, because this was like intensely debated on education forum, JFK site, the one based Spartacus, one based in England. And you had top people on there from all around the world. And it's, I mean, my sense is that there was obviously still a lot of pressure for actions against Castro. This is still Cold War America, very much so.

1:27:32 into 62 when it was started and into 63, but things began to increasingly change. The ops were being cut down. There's no question Talbot makes that clear also, but that's not, he's not the only source. So in other words, there's a sense of which Operation Mongoose is to some extent performative to team domestic and the Cuban right wing opposition. But at the same time, it means to, it's not letting it become.

1:28:01 the active ingredient in policymaking and they knew it. And so it's, it's very interesting to see this happen, you know, because if we contextualize this, you know, JFK's literally was making detente with Castro at the second of his death. Right. Literally. Yes. The French dude. Yeah. And very significantly, he, JFK was going around CIA because. Correct. Correct. Obviously. And then.

1:28:30 But then Harvey goes over to Italy and he gets himself in a kind of a very similar situation there in an Italian context that should we work with the left or not, that we know had deeper divisions in CIA. For example, what Colby said that he believed in in 56 that Angleton and the previous ambassador, Claire Booth Luce.

1:28:54 had been making some policy around the back of Colby when he was in Italy in 56. This is the same division that runs throughout JFK and then runs into the Aldo Mora assassination in 78, just when the JFK assassination was coming under most domestic scrutiny ever, and ever since, really, in 1977-78 period. But then at the same time, look what he fuzzes up the question of, because today we see the propaganda.

1:29:22 role going, you know, okay, Angleton's in Italy. Yeah, they have two statues. They're not going to protest too much. Of course, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Angleton's role with Israel was not extremely important. It absolutely was. But we already know, as you have made clear through your amazing tour of Gladio, that these religious and

1:29:51 single national foci are there to create deception. And so, and so Angleton's role in, in Italy with Harvey is, in other words, you can almost see Harvey as to some extent creating ambiguity about the Angleton role, whether, you know, Zionist or Italian Gladio when he's really both. The ambiguity is useful, very useful in the coverup.

1:30:21 Yes. We see that throughout the assassination. I agree with you completely. But I want to go back to something you said. In doing all of this research, what I find fascinating when you started off talking about the neocons transitioning into Zionist is it actually comes full circle.

1:30:45 Which is why I think the fundamental goes back to the Fabians and Antony Sutton's book about the controlling factors of the creation of the Bolshevik Revolution. Because what I have found when you do research into many of these neocons, they were all associated, their families, with communist movements in the United States.

1:31:15 And it was only in the 40s that they kind of transitioned into this post-World War II neocon armor. But their families were, they all touched on the young communist movement in the United States, the communist CPUSA, all of those things.

1:31:41 I find that fascinating when you think about the strategy of tension of creating both sides of different things. Some of the same people transition in their lifetime from being a member of the CPUSA eventually becoming the neocon element.

1:32:06 and then transitioning into the Zionist piece of it. And then you're back to the communist element in all of this. And it just shows you that they can put on whatever armor they need to perpetuate this division and this strategy of tension to keep everybody.

1:32:36 living in fear. And that's why I look at everything like the McCarthy red scare and all of that stuff with a jaundiced eye now. I just think the majority of it, if you step back at the 30,000 foot look, it was just all about a strategy of tension, of keeping people living in fear.

1:33:01 Because the same people throughout time morph into different camps with seemingly any ability. And the fact that, to your point all along, that they're not called out on it means that the people in the media that would have normally called that out understand what's going on and understand what they're doing and are complicit in their ability to do it.

1:33:30 And I just find that fascinating. And I do agree that the neocon transition to the Zionist piece of this was simply to divide, because in the Christian religion, you obviously have regular Christians that are not Zionist, and you see an overt attempt to

1:33:58 transition people that are independently minded Christians into the Zionist camp. So it's just really a manipulation, if you will. And I kind of put it all under the banner of the strategy of tension. They have to, in order to perpetuate big government, have tension. Because if a benign, small federal government was,

1:34:28 ever going to exist it would perpetuate in a small footprint and the only time it enlarges itself is when you go to a war footing or when you go to some type of a strategy of tension you would temporarily expand the government but after world war ii that temporary expansion became permanent and i think that's the piece that has to be rolled back

1:34:57 Go ahead. All along. Yeah, Colonel, I mean, I agree with virtually everything you say. The one thing I might push back on a little is I get kind of, I have qualms with the term Fabian. And the reason I think is because for me, it feels like a 50,000 foot kind of terminology. I'm not saying that there's zero validity to it. There might be.

1:35:31 full validity to it. Have you ever read any of the books about the Fabian Society? I've read, I read about the Fabian Society about, you know, ages ago. So this is why I'm realizing the need to be open-minded about it because, no, I haven't recently read, you know, a ton about the Fabian Society. But I also, you know, I think that there are also some things like, you know, the CIA strategy,

1:36:01 was to develop a non-communist left. And yeah, so who were the non-communist left? The Trotskyists, it doesn't mean like all the Trotskyists went along with that bullshit, because ideologically, most of them have nothing to do with the CIA's non-communist left. But some of them did. Some of them did. You're absolutely right. And they were from the, your point about the families, absolutely. I mean, it comes down.

1:36:29 The guy at Harvard who graduated in 2000, Walter Lippman, the famous media guy, was like, yeah, his buddy, I think, in the freshman year, I think, was John, you know, John Reed, whatever the guy, you know. Yeah, Reed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're from these blue blood families. And yeah, there's going to, there are always going to be what in hindsight seems like a black sheep of the family. But that's only in hindsight because we.

1:36:54 we forget we impose our view of the current political spectrum onto like 1910s, which is vastly different. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. The thing is that, and yet, you know, you have, you have already by 1920, 21, you have Walter Lippman writing the book that, you know, the phantom public and whatever the fuck his other one was basically saying, you know, he was, he was a Democrat. He was kind of like a liberal, an elite liberal.

1:37:21 in the sense that we would call liberal today, like NAACP supporting guy, but he got freaked out by World War I and said, look, we liberal elites cannot trust the public because the public will go insane based on the propaganda. Oh, you mean the propaganda the upper class made for them and insisted was the only thing they could read? He forgets to mention that part. What are you going to do? There's always been this attempt to...

1:37:50 garner and control, have a controlled opposition from us, you know, probably further back than then. But that's what I, that's why I, that's why I recommend you find you. And I have three of them. I would recommend, I don't have them right in front of me.

1:38:06 If you go back and you read one of these books that articulate the fundamental principles of the Fabian society, it encapsulates everything you say. I mean, that's where the Hegelian dialect comes from. That's where they were the first people to talk about propaganda. They were the first people to talk about one world government.

1:38:27 It's just amazing how much of something that was talked about. And I mean, eugenicists, they gave birth to that. They created the London School of Economics, Oxford, the RIIA, the CFR, all of this stuff. And they're just controlling mechanisms in basically creating an overall, not left or right. I mean, they obviously use those.

1:38:55 paradigms, but it's basically at a 50,000 foot look, it's creating a boiling cauldron to put all the frogs in. And they talk about how it has to be a very slow process in order for no one to recognize the heat's being turned up. It's just fascinating to watch all of this stuff over the last hundred years play out after you've read some of their

1:39:22 and you just, you see it everywhere. So I think we get, we talk about kind of the weeds level of particular movements and it's important to understand how they all play into that big hand that has all the strings attached to it because they're moving everybody along.

1:39:52 into this, you know, we, we all recognize that and we recognize that, um, we're all trying to, um, dig our heels in and not go onto the cattle car, but, um.

1:40:05 It's just fascinating to me. And one of the most fascinating things was to watch these families as they kind of morph themselves into whatever the new propaganda is going to be. If the new scare is going to be communist, well, we're going to morph into that. Then we're going to use the neocon piece of it and we're going to morph into that. And then we're going to morph into this over here.

1:40:28 And that's why I find this particular book fascinating because like you pointed out earlier, Schlesinger is one of those people that kind of had his feet, as Illini was saying, in both pots and was watching this unfold in real time around him with his feet on both sides watching it. He's listening to the...

1:40:56 anti-JFK camp at these parties while he's living the JFK camp in his day job. It's just a fascinating phenomenon to me. Travis, and then we'll go back to all along. I just wanted to say as far as Epstein being Mossad, it's well documented that Epstein inherited the business from Ghislaine Maxwell's father.

1:41:26 Robert Maxwell, a.k.a. Ludwig Halt. He got his new identity from either MI6 or CIA. It was while he was transitioning to Gladio that he became Robert Maxwell. When the Gaydon organization was first being formed, I have...

1:41:56 I don't know where it is. I have 42,000 pages of files, and I don't know which one it's in. But Galen is saying that, okay, everything's fine, but you have to get Hawk out. I don't want him in Germany. I don't want him anywhere around Germany. You can do whatever you want to with him.

1:42:24 He'll be great for Gladio, but not here. Yeah, I'm not saying that he wasn't Mossad. I'm just saying that he had to have also been all of the other things, too. Oh, just have a little bit more. Okay, when Ben-Gurion was getting ready to start Mossad before Israel was actually official, CIA introduced Robert Maxwell.

1:42:55 to Ben-Gurion to help with finances and technological and material support. Okay, part of that material support included Crypto AG with the CIA's back door. So the theory that he could have been Mossad, well, they basically infiltrated him into Mossad on purpose.

1:43:24 Him being most odd and then not knowing if it's like, you know. It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. Yes, I agree. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah, thank you. All along, go ahead. Yeah, Colonel, I'm not sure you and I were disagreeing earlier. Again, regarding the Fabian stuff, I agree. I need to go back to it and read more on it.

1:43:55 because it's been a long, long time. Okay, however, I guess at the same time, I'm seeing this is not necessarily a disagreement, but another kind of lens on which we could view the situation. Like, there's a sense in which, for example, some people could have seen the January 6th protesters as...

1:44:28 you know, all this, all that tools of certain organizations. And we saw, we've obviously seen propaganda attempts to link these organizations to, you know, try to make it seem like treason was going on. And yet at the same time, you know, I've not studied the January 6th situation, but I'm now more than willing to consider the possibility that there were definitely some gladio type.

1:44:57 actions going on there where I'm not going to just sit and listen to somebody who's only seen CNN and Fox, MSNBC, without asking serious questions about that, to say the least. Similarly, I think we also have to look, sometimes I feel like the word Fabian is used in a way that is perhaps assuming that there is a similar only top-down

1:45:27 And not bottom and no bottom up, you know, in terms of the working class organizations to create the situation. And we we know that in any historical moment, there are going to be elements of both. And often ideologues will try to act like it's only top down when they when it's advantageous for them to. So, right. Like like in 1968, for example, in the RFK campaign.

1:45:56 It was breaking all the rules. I know, but let me just... It's so critical the RFK win in Indiana. I'm sorry. I know, but let me just say this. Any legitimate... I agree with you completely. There's always organic grass level. The Tea Party was one of them. But any legitimate, just like in every coup that we've seen around the world, every legitimate...

1:46:25 ground up effort, their leaders are assassinated and or they're infiltrated and taken over. And you're absolutely right. There are grassroot level efforts, but they rarely, and that's not to say never, because we've had grassroot revolutions to overthrow CIA installed dictators. It does happen.

1:46:55 But it happens not for the outside trying to influence them. It happens because they're fully aware of the outside trying to influence them. And they make significant enough efforts to thwart.

1:47:16 That penetration effort. I would suggest to you that Chavez is one of those people. He traveled for years around Venezuela in a grassroots effort to take their government back from the CIA control. So we're saying the exact same thing. And in America, it just seems like most of them to include, as you pointed out, January 6th, there was infiltrators there. We've talked about it.

1:47:46 Several times, the one Ukrainian that was in January 6th crowd being on the front lines of breaking into the Capitol was stopped by the FBI in the San Francisco airport and allowed to leave. So just like you had those, what everybody now, I've read it in several books, there were OAS agents in Dallas and they were escorted.

1:48:15 Out of the country. So there's any grassroots effort that is deemed a threat will be infiltrated. At least they will try to. They did it in all of the different efforts in Nicaragua. They did it in Guatemala. Some were successful, but not long-term because they eventually just roll in there with guns blazing and assassinate the people.

1:48:44 Yeah, the only one that they weren't able to get rid of was Castro. And I still find that amazing. I've not ruled out the fact that that was kind of a side deal. Because like I told you, Castro gave the US government the justification to use him as a way to...

1:49:06 conduct Operation Condor. He became a convenient stooge. And as we were just talking about with the lowering of, I mean, I don't know, I guess you could say that the CIA is that inept that they try over 400 times to try to assassinate Castro and somehow they screw every single one of them up when they're able to take out presidents at will around the world.

1:49:37 I don't know. Every time I start thinking about that, it kind of just blows my mind. And, you know, at some point they had to have acknowledged. But at the same time, they couldn't stop trying because you'd have tens of thousands of trained assassins called Cuban exiles in the United States that would have turned on our government. So they had to keep up the pretense of trying to overthrow them.

1:50:00 But he became a convenient reason to overthrow all the rest of the governments, literally all of the rest of the governments in Latin America. So I don't know. I enjoy learning more things and I question more things now than I've ever done in my life because so much of the story that we were told doesn't make any sense at all to a rationing brain, but a rational brain. Okay, all right.

1:50:30 What a lively discussion. All right, we'll see you here tomorrow for another amazing chapter in this devil's chessboard. I appreciate everybody being here, guys. Take care.

Entities here

CIA50 William Harvey46 Operation Gladio26 John F. Kennedy25 Italy25 United States19 Mark Wyatt15 Cuba13 James Jesus Angleton13 Ireland12 Aldo Moro11 Jeffrey Epstein10 Soviet Union10 Opening to the Left10 Arthur Schlesinger Jr.9 Allen Dulles8 Clara Grace Harvey8 Henry Kissinger7 Rome7 Mossad6 Johnny Roselli6 Christian Democratic Union6 Italian Socialist Party6 Kathy Rumler6 Fabian Society5 Fidel Castro5 Pietro Nenni5 Sardinia5 John F. Kennedy's 1963 European Tour5 Robert F. Kennedy5 Amintore Fanfani5 West Germany5 Dallas5 January 6 Capitol attack4 Piano Solo4 Walter Reuther4 SIFAR4 Operation Mongoose4 Clare Boothe Luce4 India4

Claims made here

John F. Kennedy visited Italy documented ▶ 1:09

“So we're on chapter 17, the parting glass. In the summer of 1963, President Kennedy flew to Europe for what would be the final overseas trip of his life. Although he had left Washington, the forces of…”

John F. Kennedy visited Amintore Fanfani documented ▶ 1:35

“These forces came swirling together in Rome during JFK's official visit to the imperial capital, where tour guides still pointed out the stone steps on which Julius Caesar's blood was spilled. On July…”

Arthur Schlesinger Jr. convinced John F. Kennedy book_quoted ▶ 6:10

“It was author Schlesinger who convinced President Kennedy to break with Eisenhower's policy and support Italy's opening to all parties in the country. He would be quoted as saying, my impression is th…”

James Jesus Angleton framed Arthur Schlesinger Jr. book_quoted ▶ 6:43

“offered sanctuary in Harvard's history department to anti-Mussolini exile Savamini, an Italian socialist politician and historian. Angleton was so furious about the new tilt in favor of an open govern…”

Clare Boothe Luce lobbied_against Opening to the Left book_quoted ▶ 7:16

“Meanwhile, former Ambassador Luce lobbied fanatically against this opening, dashing off a long, somewhat incoherent letter to JFK in February of 1963, filled with random observations about a growing t…”

Pietro Nenni published_in Foreign Affairs book_quoted ▶ 9:48

“on the left in the United States, but only as long as they're co-opted like the National Education Association. Okay, the longest conversation that Kennedy had that evening was with an old socialist w…”

John F. Kennedy met_with Pietro Nenni book_quoted ▶ 9:48

Dino Pionzio met_with Sergio Fiato book_quoted ▶ 12:36

“This is a remarkable and until now unreported story that sheds new light on the growing fixtures in the Kennedy administration. Shortly after JFK flew home from Italy, Dino John Pionzio, the CIA's lea…”

John F. Kennedy agreed_with Aldo Moro book_quoted ▶ 13:32

“had discussed with Kennedy a few days early during an afternoon stroll that JFK and the Italian politician had taken through the garden. To his great dismay, Pianzio was told that Morrow and Kennedy h…”

CIA funded Christian Democratic Union book_quoted ▶ 14:00

“war days when the agency began funneling money to the Italian party. Dulles himself had confirmed this relationship when he was CIA director during a secret meeting with Morrow that was held in the Ro…”

Aldo Moro formed Opening to the Left documented ▶ 15:29

“was one more flagrant example of how the agency sought to undermine Kennedy's presidency as well as an Italian democracy. In November of 63, Aldo Moro finally formed a coalition government with the so…”

CIA attempted_coup_against Opening to the Left book_quoted ▶ 15:29

William Harvey appointed CIA book_quoted ▶ 15:57

“but their dreams were not fulfilled. Even before JFK's assassination on November 22nd, the diehard opponents of the unified government in the CIA and Italian intelligence services were actively conspi…”

William Harvey worked_with Reinhard Gehlen book_quoted ▶ 20:22

“His reputation continued to grow as he constantly searched for new ways to make the battle to the Soviet enemy more real. While in Germany, Harvey worked closely with Reinhard Galen, and the Galen cam…”

William Harvey headed ZR Rifle book_quoted ▶ 23:15

“Among those he sought out were safecrackers and break-in specialists. Harvey would soon be dealing with men whose skills were very violent. November 1961, Harvey was put in charge of a top-secret CIA …”

William Harvey worked_with Johnny Roselli book_quoted ▶ 23:48

“The prior cop, now CIA agent, and Roselli formed a tight bond. Harvey invited Roselli to dinner at his family's spacious Chevy Chase home, where little Sally took to calling him Uncle Johnny. The two …”

William Harvey supplied_arms_to Johnny Roselli book_quoted ▶ 24:18

“and operated a network of paramilitary training bases as well as safe houses in posh Coral Gables and Key Biscayne neighborhoods. So Operation Gladio embedded in U.S. neighborhoods. Harvey provided Ro…”

Richard Helms promoted William Harvey book_quoted ▶ 25:42

“Just not for our team. In 1962, Helms, who along with Angleton, had replaced the retired Dulles as Harvey's main patrons at the agency, promoted agency tough guy, naming him to the head of the CIA's e…”

Richard Helms reassigned William Harvey book_quoted ▶ 28:15

“He was quoted as saying, you're dealing with people's lives, the younger Kennedy brother said. And then you're going to go off on a half-assed operation such as this. Harvey's protectors acted quickly…”

James Jesus Angleton suggested William Harvey book_quoted ▶ 28:46

“And that was Angleton's idea. Angleton thought the CIA station there had gone soft and was not doing enough to scoop Soviet skullduggery in the Eternal City where there was none. Helms and Angleton di…”

William Harvey procured_for John F. Kennedy host_asserted ▶ 31:47

“in a compound near the Harvey's villa threw rats over the wall into their garden. Probably because they were nasty neighbors. According to CG, one of her husband's less savory tasks was procuring pros…”

William Harvey member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 32:18

“I don't believe any of that. They just hated JFK. It's highly unlikely the president would have relied on a notoriously anti-Kennedy CIA officer to do any of that. They would have completely distruste…”

Mark Wyatt member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 33:20

“were ideal representatives of the U.S. That's his deputy. The Wyatts, who had fallen in love with Rome after the war, when they were both young CIA agents, were enchanted with the city, spoke fluent I…”

SIFAR member_of Operation Gladio book_quoted ▶ 33:47

“Mastiani at a restaurant and brought home his autograph. Mark Wyatt, who enjoyed good relations with local officials, was supposed to act as a buffer between Harvey and his CIA counterparts. But Harve…”

SIFAR spied_on CIA book_quoted ▶ 34:17

“providing the Americans with the results of their spying on political figures and partnering with the U.S. on Operation Gladio, the secret stay-behind-Army program to resist quote-unquote left-wing ad…”

William Harvey ordered_assassination_of Renzo Rocca book_quoted ▶ 34:47

“a top CIFAR counter-espionage chief, to sabotage partnerships that had gained momentum after Kennedy's visit. Harvey pushed Rocha to take his action squads, Gladio cells, to carry out bombings of Chri…”

Mark Wyatt member_of Operation Gladio book_quoted ▶ 35:18

“in Italy. Wyatt was no shrinking violet when it came to covert action. He had served as a CIA bag man during the 48 elections in Italy, handling the suitcases full of cash. Later, Wyatt was one of the…”

Mark Wyatt member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 35:18

Otto Skorzeny trained Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 35:50

“But this is going to be very important. Nor was Wyatt one of the delicate desk heroes who had never risked his life. Now, keep in mind, Sardinia is where Otto Skorzeny would come and train. Gladio ope…”

William Harvey ordered_assassination_of Mark Wyatt book_quoted ▶ 36:44

“One day, Wyatt was stunned to hear his boss propose recruiting mafia hitmen to kill Italian officials. When Wyatt objected to his extreme suggestion, Harvey flew into a rage. During one angry showdown…”

Giovanni di Lorenzo attempted_coup_against Amintore Fanfani book_quoted ▶ 37:13

“former CIFAR director and chief of the carabinieri, which is their paramilitary police, their national police, threatened to overthrow the government and arrest hundreds of politicians unless socialis…”

Giovanni di Lorenzo member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 37:45

“who had suffered exile and imprisonment under Mussolini's reign, harbored deep anxieties about this fascist revival in Italy, and he quickly gave in to General Di Lorenzo's demand. Wyatt later insiste…”

William Harvey member_of Operation Gladio book_quoted ▶ 38:42

“Mark Wyatt was attending a meeting at the Gladio base in Sardinia with Bill Harvey when he heard President Kennedy had been shot. They were at a Gladio terrorist training camp, Harvey and Wyatt, durin…”

Mark Wyatt spied_on William Harvey book_quoted ▶ 39:13

“following a late afternoon round of drinks. After Wyatt managed to rouse him, the CIA station chief blurted out some provocative remarks about the events in Dallas that deeply disturbed Wyatt for the …”

William Harvey member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 39:40

“His son, Wyatt's son, my dad would sometimes talk about Harvey in the context of Kennedy's assassination. He talked about the connection between Harvey and the mafia, not just his involvement with Joh…”

Fabio Calvi spied_on Mark Wyatt book_quoted ▶ 40:33

“In 1989, when a French investigative journalist named Faboiso Calvi came to interview Wyatt about Operation Gladio at his retirement home in California's Lake Tahoe, the former CIA official felt compe…”

William Harvey member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 42:03

“We considered Harvey to be one of our prime suspects from the very start. He had all the key connections, organized crime, CIA station chief in Miami where the plots to kill Castro were run, other pri…”

William Harvey member_of Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 42:32

“sitting at one of their command centers in Sardinia on the day JFK is killed, who visited Dallas beforehand, which is what an Advan team would do, an advanced team that is sent in to case the area and…”

John F. Kennedy member_of Ireland book_quoted ▶ 44:31

“You've got all the Irish votes in the country. You'll never get any more. It would just be a pleasure trip. He saw no political advantage to it. For Kennedy, whose eight grandparents had all left Irel…”

John F. Kennedy member_of Clancy Brothers book_quoted ▶ 46:24

“In February, when he was preparing for his Ireland trip, Kennedy had even invited the Clancy Brothers, a popular Irish singing group, to perform for him at the White House. The folk group ended all of…”

John F. Kennedy member_of Arbour Hill book_quoted ▶ 46:53

“JFK said that the emotional highlight for him had been the visit to Arbor Hill, the hallowed ground for Irish people. It is where the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising, who had been executed by the Br…”

Thomas Davis member_of Eowyn Rule O'Neill book_quoted ▶ 49:26

“named Eowyn Rule O'Neill, reciting its verses so often in the White House that they stuck in the staff members' heads. The poem by an early 19th century Irish patriot and poet, Thomas Davis, who himse…”

Allen Dulles ordered_assassination_of John F. Kennedy host_asserted ▶ 50:55

“but I will never understand why God had to take him now. Well, we do because Alan Dulles decided that was the time. That's it for today. That's the end of that chapter. Comments? Go ahead, SR. Thank y…”

CIA ordered_assassination_of Pietro Sandro caller_asserted ▶ 51:40

“His travels to Ireland, particularly, I mean, and then we have, along with that, you have Pietro Sandro from Italy, who was a known fascist, by the way. So he's trying to make inroads with the rest of…”

Soviet Union spied_on Berlin Tunnel caller_asserted ▶ 52:42

“See, we tried and we got caught. But out of all of this, we got bigger fish to fry. But if you go back and you look at the news, they never told us, Americans, that the Soviets knew about it the entir…”

CIA member_of AFL-CIO caller_asserted ▶ 58:10

“of concern to the working class. And yet it's between 1963 and 1968 that the CIO, which was the lowest paid part of the AFL-CIO, which was a Cold War shotgun marriage, you know, by the CIA, but the CI…”

James Jesus Angleton member_of Operation Gladio caller_asserted ▶ 1:03:12

“Obviously, there's been a lot of news over the past, you know, four or five days. But I just think that piano solo kind of is your smoking gun, that the presidency doesn't really control the administr…”

Tom Karamessines member_of Operation Gladio caller_asserted ▶ 1:03:41

“particularly James Angleton. I think Tom Karamasins was either there during Piano Solo or there slightly after. He's another player, particularly in Latin America. He was there either during or during…”

Vernon Walters member_of Operation Gladio caller_asserted ▶ 1:04:31

“Bill Harvey was involved in it. Vernon Walters was involved in it. Yeah, so absolutely. It isn't mentioned in Vernon Walters' autobiography either. He talks about Italy. He doesn't talk about this. Ye…”

Aldo Moro assassinated Red Brigades caller_asserted ▶ 1:05:03

“And then like we talked about, Aldo Moro becomes the prime minister and he's murdered after being kidnapped by, it was originally blamed on the Red Brigade, but it was not. It was an Operation Gladio …”

CIA funded Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:05:33

“election interference for the new CIA in 1948, and it continued on the entire time because it was a hotbed of Operation Gladio, to include the island of Sardinia. It comes up in so many of the Gladio …”

NATO funded Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:06:06

“that was kind of like the kind of essence, at least in the media, of what the U.S. public knows from the broad subset of stuff that we might call like Italian gladio of the 1970s, right? People hear a…”

Jeffrey Epstein member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 1:11:31

“Yep. Thank you, Colonel. Sure. Illini, go ahead. Hey, Colonel. Yeah, obviously the Epstein files, you know, are, you know, kind of shaking a lot of different assumptions out there. You know, beyond, o…”

Jeffrey Epstein paid Kathy Rumler host_asserted ▶ 1:11:59

“as well as Kathy Rumler. One of the things that I thought was interesting was there's this lady named Catherine Reynolds that Epstein was mailing all these packages to. He was getting Federal Express …”

Edward J. Epstein member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 1:14:14

“And he covered, you know, the JFK assassination. And for a while I thought, OK, this guy's probably decent, at least for documenting, you know, and as a reference and everything. Turns out he shows up…”

Kathy Rumler member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 1:15:13

“She's bragging in the emails to Epstein that she was awarded the highest CIA level. And I checked everything that I pulled on the CIA that I have saved in folders. I even asked for different AI system…”

Henry Kissinger member_of Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:19:02

“you can tell that Kissinger's presence gives you a really strong hint that this is Gladio. Now, the European news outlets who are all, you know, ironically citing, you know, quote-unquote security off…”

Jeffrey Epstein member_of Mossad host_asserted ▶ 1:20:48

“There's no doubt that Epstein was tied to MI6, Mossad, and the CIA. And if you want to make the argument that it was 100% just the Mossad, you have to explain how the CIA missed it, how the CIA didn't…”

CIA covered_up Jeffrey Epstein host_asserted ▶ 1:21:45

“And the CIA never knew it. You can't make that argument. That doesn't happen in the United States without the CIA knowing it. And then that makes the CIA complicit in it at the very least, if not an o…”

William Harvey succeeded James Jesus Angleton host_asserted ▶ 1:26:04

“It's complicated. But one of the great things about Harvey, he kind of makes it complicated. Because on the one hand, Talbot is portraying him as having conflicts with, of all people, our good friend,…”

William Colby spied_on James Jesus Angleton host_asserted ▶ 1:28:30

“But then Harvey goes over to Italy and he gets himself in a kind of a very similar situation there in an Italian context that should we work with the left or not, that we know had deeper divisions in …”

William Colby spied_on Clare Boothe Luce host_asserted ▶ 1:28:30

William Harvey covered_up James Jesus Angleton host_asserted ▶ 1:29:51

“single national foci are there to create deception. And so, and so Angleton's role in, in Italy with Harvey is, in other words, you can almost see Harvey as to some extent creating ambiguity about the…”

Walter Lippmann member_of French Communist Party host_asserted ▶ 1:36:29

“The guy at Harvard who graduated in 2000, Walter Lippman, the famous media guy, was like, yeah, his buddy, I think, in the freshman year, I think, was John, you know, John Reed, whatever the guy, you …”

Robert Maxwell front_for Mossad host_asserted ▶ 1:40:56

“anti-JFK camp at these parties while he's living the JFK camp in his day job. It's just a fascinating phenomenon to me. Travis, and then we'll go back to all along. I just wanted to say as far as Epst…”

Robert Maxwell front_for Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:41:26

“Robert Maxwell, a.k.a. Ludwig Halt. He got his new identity from either MI6 or CIA. It was while he was transitioning to Gladio that he became Robert Maxwell. When the Gaydon organization was first be…”

Robert Maxwell funded Mossad host_asserted ▶ 1:42:55

“to Ben-Gurion to help with finances and technological and material support. Okay, part of that material support included Crypto AG with the CIA's back door. So the theory that he could have been Mossa…”

Fidel Castro front_for Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:48:44

“Yeah, the only one that they weren't able to get rid of was Castro. And I still find that amazing. I've not ruled out the fact that that was kind of a side deal. Because like I told you, Castro gave t…”