Operation Gladio with guest Hugo Turner Ukraine background

2:08:14

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Transcript

0:00 Okay, this one's going to be dicey. Isn't it always? It is. They've already picked me out once. But the reason why, oh, my hair's all messed up too. Come in, it's windy outside and my hair's like a mess. I just turned on the rumble. I'm like, oh, who is that? My husband just left for his Friday, first Friday downtown car show.

0:29 And the dogs are out on the back porch with the door open. So they will be running in and out. So I apologize up front if you hear the crazy machination of two puppies. Okay. I do have a couple of things I want to talk about at the end. I want to keep the books up to the beginning. And then we will add.

1:01 You want to go ahead and give, oh, I guess I have to do that. I'll give her the co-host. And there's a couple of things that I want to talk about, one of which, Bridget, if you'll remind me, is the True the Vote post. I definitely want to talk about that at the end. Absolutely. All right. So starting off, Chapter 22, the Fatwa and Richard Helms. The, again.

1:32 This book is based on material from CIA agents, and it was their view that cozying up to totalitarian regimes in the Persian Gulf, that the U.S. had basically turned its back on many of the people in the United States, basically for oil profits.

1:59 The intended effect of the policy was to produce cheap oil for import while basically not using our own. And they felt like that projected an image of the United States around the world that wasn't necessarily a healthy one. And, of course, their assumption was that we didn't really care what other people thought because we had the biggest guns.

2:29 We used them and basically in very oppressive ways. When the management of any opposition that came our way potentially got in the way that it would provide problems for us. So, OK, so Hugo did make it. All right. I'd never heard whether or not he got confirmed.

3:02 So thanks for letting me know that he's here. Hugo, welcome to the show. If you would like to take a couple of seconds and introduce yourself to the audience, because a lot of people may not know your background. Hi, I'm Hugo Turner. I'm a researcher. I've been doing a blog for around 10 years. I started like right when the first.

3:31 Ukraine Civil War started back in 2014. And I've been doing, since the Russian invasion, I've been doing like a three or four year project on Ukraine, doing the history of the OUN from their origin through World War II, through their use by the CIA during the Cold War and MI6. They're like influenced in Canada, America, Australia. And I should finish that next year.

4:02 Generally, I focus on CIA-related topics and the CIA and drugs, the CIA and fascism, and covert wars in general, counterinsurgency, that kind of thing. And I've written, say, I think around 100 articles. So, did you get a chance to...

4:34 look at any of the stuff that we've been researching? I haven't been able to listen in because I just have an iPad usually. I know you guys have been studying Gladio, basically. That's it. In different countries. Yes. Most people are unaware that the generic use of the term Gladio

5:04 dealing with the CIA as it relates to regime change, fascism, the World Anti-Communist League, and how all of that plays into the original origins of them wanting to basically implement their long-term plan being one world government. We have a very wide focus on looking at the apparatus.

5:31 that they use, such as the NGOs, the nonprofits, the National Endowment for Democracy and that type of thing. So can you give us, since your specialty is Ukraine, can you give us what you believe the relevant points for a common person today to understand about their history?

6:02 Just on Ukraine, it's sort of a controversial topic. It's sort of like a, basically, there's never been, there was never a country called Ukraine in history until after World War I. And really, it was sort of a part of Russia that was conquered by Poland and gradually developed its own sort of national identity only in the late 19th century. And this was sort of a time in Europe where everyone just went crazy with nationalism.

6:32 And the Ukrainians were like, you know, we're a separate nation. Really, it's kind of a Russian dialect, but you're not really allowed to say that. So basically, after World War I, they briefly had an attempt. They had two separate Ukrainians. They had a West Ukraine and a Ukrainian People's Republic, which was sort of like the part that was under Russia.

6:57 the part of present-day Ukraine was always divided between first Poland and Russia, and then later the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Russia. And so at the start of World War I, part of Ukraine was in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The rest of it was considered just part of Russia. It was called Little Russia, Mallow Russia. And so after these republics failed, basically they declared independence, and then they became a...

7:27 German puppet state, and then when Germany lost the war, they briefly fought against the Soviets, and then the white Russians were also fighting in Ukraine. The Western, like France, was occupying Odessa, and there was this attempt to create this sort of independent Ukraine, but it failed, and most of Ukraine became part of the Soviet Union, and the rest became part of Poland. The part that's in Poland is where the OUN

7:56 was created. And it basically, after the failure to create a state, they created this organization called the UVO, the Ukrainian Military Organization, which was a terrorist group that spied for Germany and was attacking the Poles because they lost the war to, Western Ukraine lost the war to Poland, basically. And so Galicia became part of Poland. And also a part that was part of Russia, Volhynia, became part of Poland.

8:26 So basically, they sided with the Nazis against the Germans and against the Soviets. They became, like, radicalized. There was this philosopher that they followed, Dmitry Dantsov, who's very, like, a sort of Nietzschean, kind of do everything for the Ukrainian state. Morality is just throwing out the window. All that matters is power. And so in 1929, they founded the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.

8:55 to fight for like an independent fascist ukraine and eventually the younger generation under steven bandera split from the older generation that had like fought in world war one and they formed the ounb and the founder of the oun had been like assassinated by the soviets so the old timers were taken over by the ounm basically bandera um andre melnick so bandera

9:23 Told Melnyk to resign and let him lead it. Melnyk refused. And so it was split, basically. So the OUNM was also fighting the OUNB. They were both competing for German support. And basically when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, they both came along with Germany. And they had many supporters in Poland and Galicia and Lithuania who...

9:52 were quick to join their movement, and basically they carried out a genocide against Jews, against Poles, against Russians, and were, like, incorporated into the German military intelligence. They also had formed ties with MI6 before this. And so when the Nazis lost the war, they found a new sponsor in America and the British, because now the enemy was the Soviet Union. And so for...

10:19 Most people would think that World War II ended in 1945, but for Ukraine, it continued until 1950 and even until a lower intensity. There's only hundreds of these EPA units left by that point. Hundreds of members, but the war didn't really end until 1953. Anyways, another important fact about this is that during the war,

10:47 the OUNB formed this organization called the UPA, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. And so a lot of times the Soviets and other people would refer to them as the OUNUPA, or OUNUPA, as the Ukrainians say it. And they conducted this massive genocide against the poles of Volhynia and Galicia to try to force them to flee so they could take this territory after the war.

11:17 They end up getting this territory anyways because it's part of the Soviets. At the end of the war, Poland was a puppet state, so they created this arrangement where Poland would get the eastern part of Germany and Ukraine would get the eastern part of Poland. Galicia and all of Ukraine was unified under the Soviet Union and became part of the Soviet Republic of Ukraine. So basically, the West is funding these Ukrainian nationalists.

11:46 in this eight-year war behind enemy lines. It's always omitted from any kind of Cold War history. You always hear about how the Soviets imposed these communist governments in Eastern Europe, which is true, but you'd never hear about how the West was actually supporting these covert wars in many of these Eastern European countries using these former Nazi collaborator groups. And Hugo, if I may,

12:16 Because we do talk a lot about Operation Gladio and the stay-behind units. It's my understanding from our research that there were a lot of that stay-behind unit construct when the Nazis were originally coming through Ukraine during World War II. Is that what your research has shown as well? Oh, yeah. Well, they had their own network in Galicia and Volhynia when the Nazis came through.

12:44 Even though, like, the Soviets gained it in 1939 as part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement, but they still had their underground members that were, like, ready to, you know, they were supporters. And so as soon as it was safe to come out of hiding and, like, openly be OUNB, they were ready. So, yeah, they had this underground stay-behind network. And, yes, the Ukrainians are very much linked to this Gladio thing because they served as the German stay-behinds in...

13:14 After Germany was kicked out of Ukraine, they were still supporting the EPA to fight against the Soviets. And they were flying in arms and stuff. And then after Germany was defeated, the British just sort of took it over. And then eventually the Americans took it over. And they were parachuting OUN members into Ukraine and dropping arms, dropping money, dropping guns. They assassinated 3,000 Soviet officials.

13:44 Frank Wisner bragged, that's probably not true, but I think they did like 15,000 or so. And a lot of the victims were just sort of Ukrainian peasants who, you know, they were like, you cannot obey the Soviet authorities or you become the enemy. And it's very dangerous, obviously, to rebel against the Soviet authorities. So eventually the people, even though they supported them in their hearts, the people of Western Ukraine had to kind of go with reality.

14:12 stop supporting the OMB or they would get deported or killed. And so for complicity's sake, if you were to look at modern day Ukraine, it would be fair to say that it historically had been basically Poland and Russia and that the nationalistic

14:37 people inside of Ukraine that wanted their own country in many ways took advantage of the world wars in order to try to make their case and create a country where none had existed before. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, definitely. And, well, of course, Poland was carved up in the 18th century, so it was carved up between Russia

15:06 Germany and Austro-Hungary and so that's why Austro-Hungary had the part that later became, after World War I, Poland became a state. That's why I've become very interested in World War I because all these Eastern European countries were carved out of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and then earlier they've been carved out of Turkey and stuff. I find that kind of fascinating because you don't learn anything about Eastern Europe in school or in college even, unless you specifically go to a college that has a specialty program or something, which I didn't.

15:35 And, Hugo, you make an interesting point because they basically, and I'm a very basic person when it comes to concepts, it seems to me, based on my research of World War I and understanding that the Fabian Society told us well in advance in the 1800s that we were going to have three wars that would basically change the entire world into one world government. And the First World War did exactly what you just said.

16:04 It re-carved up Europe, Eastern Europe, all the way through Russia. And then the World War II, you find in the aftermath of it, all of what we call fake countries like Taiwan and soon to be Kurdistan goes away and you end up with reformed Iran, Iraq, and Syria.

16:31 It's basically just the reshuffling of human populations. But interestingly enough, especially in Europe, it created fault lines that led to further mass casualty events, flash wars, which seems to be the preferred way these people like dealing with the chaos and terror is through warfare in the military industrial complex. Yeah, well, I'm more of a...

17:02 I would see what you would call a one-on-one government as, say, the British Empire, and then later the American Empire. They want to control the whole world, and they use this idea that it would be equitably around everything. But if it had been brought to, if they'd gotten their way, it would have been controlled from London, and now it would be controlled from D.C., and it's just sort of the rules-based international order, as they would call it, or the New World Order, as they called it after the Soviet Union fell.

17:31 I call it empire, but essentially, yes, I would say the British planned World War I so that they could knock out their biggest rival, Germany, and that they'd form these alliances and that they just sort of pretend like these things just happened, but they were planning World War II. They were building up Germany to destroy the Soviet Union, but then it became too much of a threat to the British Empire, too, so that America had to...

17:59 join the Soviet Union, their actual enemy against Nazi Germany. And then after that, they went back to hating the Soviets and then allying with the former Nazis. And I'm sure you've heard that Churchill had to drop this plan where they were going to arm all the Germans at the end of World War II and invade the Soviet Union, but it wasn't practical because the Soviets had too many tanks and so on.

18:25 Yeah, the whole end of World War II was a very interesting transition. But I've also, and it's interesting that you use those words, the American Empire, because in Cynthia Chung's book, she talked about how the Fabian Society used the terms Pan-America, which basically is the same thing that you just referred to as American Empire, which would have been all of basically the Americas.

18:55 And then you had the British Empire and you also had what was going to be a European empire once everyone got into their proper place. And then you were going to have an Asian empire. And this basically was going to form a roundtable of collusion on running the world according to their plan. Oh, yeah. I've read like a.

19:25 I'm blanking on the name, but like the Anglo, oh, Carol Quigley. Yes, yes. That's another version. Yep. And so back to Ukraine, because I find the information fascinating. What was your biggest takeaway in contrasting all of the information that you just provided by, because of course the OUN and all of those.

19:55 entities um to include the you know the origins of the azov and right sector all trace themselves right back to everything that you just talked about and that's modern day ukraine yes in ukraine everybody knows about who stephen bandera is on every azov i mean every fascist people in ukraine wants to they call it they want to portray themselves as the heirs of the oun upa and so basically what the part that didn't get to talk about was that

20:25 tens of thousands of these OUMN members moved to Canada, Australia, and the U.S. during the Cold War, where they became sort of like this Ukrainian think tank. And they were also alive with all the other fascist collaborators through this part of the World Communist League that was called the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations. So they were alive with the former Air Cross people from Hungary, the Iron Cross people from Romania. Basically, every...

20:53 country that lied with Hitler had its own kind of fascist armed movement, and they all fled the Soviets after the war, and they all settled in the West. And so even before the Soviet Union fell, they were used to try to promote the idea that Stephen Bandero was a hero and all this stuff inside the Soviet Union through this prologue research corporation.

21:19 which was a splinter group off the OUNB led by Nikola Bed, who had headed the OUNB intelligence wing, the SB. And the modern Ukrainian intelligence is called SBU. So it's actually after the OUNB's intelligence that they actually say, like, we need to adopt the tactics of the OUNUPA in order to battle. This is before, even before 2022. We need to use this to battle our enemies. And so basically...

21:50 the U.S. continued to use these groups. And then in 2014, during this color revolution, all these groups were mobilized to violently overthrow the government because in 2004, there had been this earlier color revolution, which was sort of nonviolent. These people took part in it, but it didn't get out of hand. But then eventually, in order to prevent Yanukovych from getting elected.

22:18 claiming the election was stolen. And so eventually their candidate was put in power. But then he became the pro-American candidate. I can't believe I'm blanking on this guy's name. Anyways, he declared Stephen Bandera a hero of Ukraine and started making the OUN version of history the official version of Ukraine.

22:45 He became unpopular just because of like economic problems and Yanukovych, oh, Yushchenko. So anyways, Yanukovych ended up winning the election anyways in 2010. So in 2014, they wanted to make sure that Ukraine would be forever changed by the May Day Revolution. So instead of just having this normal kind of nonviolent color revolution involving NGOs and protesters, they like...

23:11 had, like, you know, thousands of these Nazi paramilitaries taking part in it. It got all bloody. It ended up provoking a civil war. All the people that, like, Yanukovych's base of support, Donetsk, was split off from Ukraine because they were so frightened by, like, the Ukrainian fascists that they brought to power by the Maidan. They imitated basically what these Ukrainian opposition groups had done, where they seized weapons and formed separatist republics.

23:40 The Russians decided to support them in order to gain leverage over Ukraine. And they ended up beating the Ukrainian army with Russia's help. And then the conflict was frozen. But Ukraine refused to put in a peace deal, which is what led to the Russian invasion, basically. That brings us up to today, where NATO is...

24:03 flooding Ukraine with weapons in a war that they know Ukraine can't win, and, you know, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are going to end up dying in this failed attempt to stop Russia without, like, direct NATO involvement. We hope, because this could lead to World War III. I mean, if you've been following the war, it's always like, there's one more thing we need. It's like, first we need tanks, and it's like, we don't want to send tanks, and then they're sending them. Then it was like the F-16s, the HIMARS, the...

24:33 And right now it's like they want Tomahawk cruise missiles and nuclear weapons, basically. They've already got permission to fire long range missiles into Russia. And that's what they want next is Tomahawk missiles and nuclear weapons, which obviously is dangerous. It was an understatement. So can I just I want to go back. You said so much.

25:00 I want to focus a little bit on the transition from the prior Nazis to the current Nazis, if I can. We just finished or I'm in the middle of a segment with Alpha Warrior in talking about the World Anti-Communist League and its role in everything that you just said.

25:25 The Stetsco in Ukraine and Heifer in Croatia and Diuntu in Romania, you just discussed all of them. And of course, they did create the ABN faction of the World Anti-Communist League. And then you had the Asian version of that with...

25:50 Sasakawa and Kodama and Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan, Park in Korea. And it basically forms this worldwide network of fascist dictators. And in the cases of Eastern Europe, because they were kicked out of their country for things like getting babies alive.

26:19 I mean, the crimes that they committed in Eastern Europe was horrendous. The amount of people that they murdered. And so when the Soviets did occupy the Eastern European countries, and I'm not a communist sympathizer, I'm just stating facts. These people, some of which came to America as priests, as you just mentioned, they were basically dispersed through Canada, Australia and into the United States.

26:47 And they kind of morphed themselves into a veneer of acceptability when, in fact, they were all war criminals. Absolutely. But you couldn't say that or else you'd be accused of being a communist or today be accused of being a Putinist. You just sort of shut down debate. And it's like, no, they're freedom fighters. And like literally America is celebrating this.

27:13 week called Captive Nations Week every year. It was like a nationwide thing where these Nazi collaborators were being publicized as freedom fighters. And, you know, they were riding on a train with like the Liberty Bell, like waving the American flag. And it's like, no, these are like fascists. They're not Democrats. They don't love freedom. Isn't that exactly what we did with the Contras? We called them freedom fighters and they were terrorists. Absolutely. Yeah, it seems to be a habit that we have. And it's, of course,

27:43 That's actually where I got into the World Anti-Communist League was through my interest. I read Contra and I was reading this Peter Dale Scott book called that. I think that, yeah, Ryan Contra Connection or something like that. Anyways, he talked a lot about the World Anti-Communist League and I had reread this book right before the Ukraine thing popped off. And so World Anti-Communist League. I think it's called the...

28:10 I ran Contra Connections, Secret Teams, and Cobra Operations in the Reagan era. He wrote it with his son, Peter Marshall, and Jane Hunter, who was a great researcher on Israel. Yeah, I'm a bookaholic. Okay, I just want to make sure I have it. Go ahead.

28:31 So, yeah, I got into it through Iran-Contra. And the Reagan era was sort of the golden era of the World Anti-Communist League. And the World Anti-Communist League was involved in supplying arms to the Contras. And its head was, at that time, a former general.

28:50 Yes, John Stenglov. Yes. Isn't that crazy? Yes. Who had been in Korea, so he was close to the Apple, and then he became close to these Ukrainians, and it was all going on at once. And I call the Cold War World War III, which is what they would have called it. Yes. I completely agree with you. That's fascinating. So can you tell me a little bit about Stetsco? Stetsco was...

29:20 Stephen Bandera is, like, number two, man. And when the Nazis invaded in western Ukraine, the city of Lvov, which is today called, like, they call themselves Bandera-style, like, the Bandera city, he declared an independent Ukrainian state, even though, like, the Nazis only controlled, like, western Ukraine at that part. They didn't take Kiev until later in the year. So, anyways, he declared an independent state, and then the OUN went on this horrific massacre with, like, Nazis, like...

29:49 help or whatever, in cooperation with the German Nazis. And they conducted the Lvov programs where they killed tens of thousands of Jews and it was all photographed. And they also killed a bunch all over Western Ukraine at the same time in all these different towns and villages. And he was the prime minister of Ukraine because the Nazis didn't trust Stephen Bandera to go to Ukraine because he was too independent-minded, basically. And so he ended up getting sent to

30:19 They say that they were sent to a concentration camp. This was not like the concentration camp you see in the movies. This was like for the special privileged people. So like in the 80s, they had this term, country club prisons. This was like a Nazi quote of that. It was the Hilton version of concentration camp. Yes. With other important people like the Romanian Iron Guard and Stalin's son and like Bismarck's grandson and stuff like that.

30:47 He spent the war there, and then as the Nazis were losing the war in 1944, he let both Stetsco and Bandera out. Basically, after Bandera died, Stetsco took over. Even before Stetsco and Bandera died, Stetsco was responsible for creating the anti-Bolshevik bloc of nations, along with British intelligence. And so he was sort of like the mainstay of this whole movement. And his wife was also Slava Stetsco. She was sort of like...

31:14 the Barbara Thatcher of OUN. They called her the Iron Lady. And something that I apparently found out was that at the war's end, Stetsco was actually fired upon by an American aircraft and was castrated, and that his wife, like, cheated on him. That's just sort of gossipy. But anyway, Stetsco headed the ABN. After Bender died, he became the head of the OUNB, and he was, by the time of the Reagan era,

31:44 They were actually working with the U.S. government to glorify the OUN and the UPA in Soviet Ukraine using the Radio Liberty, which is probably like RFERL, Radio Freedom, Radio Liberty, the CIA radio station that's still on the internet today. It's still a major news source. So anyways, right when he died in 1986, but right when the Soviet Union collapsed,

32:13 His wife, Slava Sesko, immediately moved to Ukraine. She founded this organization called KUN, the Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists, to promote Bandera's legacy. She worked with, like, immediately right when the Soviet Union collapsed, or even beforehand, all, like, the people that had secretly loved Bandera during the Soviet times, but just kept...

32:36 kept on the low key so they wouldn't get like arrested or sent to prison. They all were like coming out of the woodwork and they formed their own fascist groups. So basically all this stuff goes back to the early nineties, which is like my next, like my last article sort of dealt with the origins of it. My next article will also take it up to the 2004, the orange revolution. And basically all these people for 20 years promoted this.

33:05 fascist movements in Ukraine. And by 2014, they had, you know, armies of 10,000 people. They had been fighting in proxy wars against Russia in Georgia, in this part of Moldova called Transnistria, which is like this Russian breakaway region. They were like, they teamed up with the Chechen terrorists and were like, the bodyguards to Shabil Basaya. And sort of like, they were...

33:32 In their minds, the war with Russia began in 1991. And actually, there's these tensions where Yeltsin threatened to take back Crimea if the Ukrainians stopped being jerks to him. And there's threats to break away Donetsk and Luhansk even back then and during the Orange Revolution. So all these fault lines.

33:58 were existing in Ukraine, and then they just sort of exploded in 2014 when they went through the government. So, yeah, tell me what you found about, because we had that recent incident of the Nazi in Canada. Tell me what you know about their dispersion into Canada, and then I'd like to move on to Australia, what you found there.

34:23 In Canada, because it's a smaller country, the Ukrainians are even more influential there than they are in the U.S. Canada's more like the strongest. In fact, the foreign minister, or the deputy prime minister, Chrystia Freeland, is descended from a Nazi war criminal. And I think it's Michael Chobiak. I don't have my notes with me. Anyways, so...

34:50 It was no accident that they invited this guy. They have all these same organizations of Wofford SS veterans. They build huge statues, embodiments to the Wofford SS Galicia Division. And the other name is like...

35:05 The last month of the war, they declared, you know, this is now called the Ukrainian National Army. So the Canadian province, like, we want to welcome this man who's been fighting against Russia for, like, 75 years for Ukrainian freedom. He served in the Ukrainian National Army. Like, every single historian that's familiar with this period in Ukraine immediately knows they're talking about the Waffen-SS Galician Division. And there's this Ukrainian scholar, Ivan Kachinowski.

35:33 who also exposed the fact that the Maidan massacre was like a false flag carried out by these fascist paramilitaries that were shooting the police and the protesters to discredit the Yanukovych government. So anyways, he's the one who exposed it. And then for some reason, the Jewish press grabbed onto it and then it actually went mainstream and there was actually a scandal. But they do this all the time and there's usually no scandal.

35:59 Yeah, there was actually a court case in Ukraine that proved that right sector had rented the entire hotel that was firing into the crowd. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. They're firing from the hotel that they controlled. And on this Canada thing, you've got these Wofford SS coalition divisions. They're part of all these Ukrainian movements.

36:27 the actual head of it was the editor of the Encyclopedia of Ukraine. It's like all these former Nazis became historians on Ukraine and shaped the whole idea of how people think about Ukraine. Like I said earlier, there was no country of Ukraine. So there were a time where they like to say they're a decolonial movement. It's not like they were...

36:56 There was never a time where Russia conquered these people that considered themselves to be Ukrainians and then, like, you know, tried to force them to speak Russian or something. They just sort of grew their identity. They grew out of these Russians, basically. So it's all, like, a lie, but it's a lie that they still are selling today.

37:17 Yeah, they were taught well by the CIA. You control the language and the history and you control the future. Like you read this guy, Serhii Plohi, who's like a Ukrainian liberal from Eastern Ukraine. But he gave us kind of like the non-fascist, but complete nonsense version that was sort of developed in the 19th century. So what did you find in Australia? In Australia...

37:42 the head of the OUNB was this guy Stefan Romanu who was like the head of the worldwide OUNB he was um Stefan Romanu he you know he went to the way that they work you see this would have died out but they have youth camps and like cultural centers so that they can

38:00 indoctrinate the whole new generation so this is like the third generation of these ukrainians like now it's no longer people that were nazi collaborators because those people died of old age and stuff but it's like their children and grandchildren and basically he died last year and he was treated as a you know national hero in australia where they're like this is like you know they're celebrating the head of the omb is this you know great democrat figure for ukrainians living in australia

38:29 That is amazing, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Well, now that you've been studying for 10 years, basically, it's like, yet again. It's amazing. I mean, that was another major thing, like in Syria, how you could openly be supporting al-Qaeda when, you know, just...

38:48 The whole war on terror started as supposedly fighting al-Qaeda. And all of a sudden, 10 years later, they're openly supporting al-Qaeda in Libya and Syria. And it's just like, nobody's like, why are we supporting al-Qaeda in Libya and Syria? In the mainstream media, they just call them modern rebels, freedom fighters. And, you know, you're not allowed to talk about it. Right. They just changed their names. They're now rebels. Yes. Yeah. But they're all created by the same.

39:16 apparatus with the intel agencies. Just like we all know now that Al-Qaeda was created by the, along with the Mujahideen, the Muslim Brotherhood, they're chaos agents. Not unlike everything that we've been talking about here. They generate chaos agents in order to do their dirty work. Through the World Anti-Communist League, there is a bunch of connections between

39:46 the Ukrainian fascists and these Islamist fascists, basically, because they were both based in Munich. There's this book called A Mosque in Munich that I haven't actually read, but I've heard about it from David Emery, who's this researcher who's famous for studying fascism and the CIA kind of thing, topics. And so that's why they fought in Chechnya. There's this thing between the Ukrainians and the Turks, and Ukrainians were helping the rebels that are taking over Syria right now.

40:14 They've supplied them with drones and stuff like that. And we're sending risers there and having secret talks with the HTS, which used to be al-Nusra, the al-Qaeda in Syria. And see, I think that's the connection that Gladio has to all of this is because if you go to Turkey and you find the gray wolves there, you also realize that they're a product of this entire. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. FBI whistleblowers, civil admins.

40:45 famously called Al-Qaeda, Gladio B, and she exposed the role of Turkish intelligence in fighting it all over Central Asia during the 90s, prior to 9-11. Yeah, and we found that Tajikistan provided a lot of the, quote-unquote, Muslims for Chechnya as well as Bosnia, and all went to the same terror training camps, a lot of which were in Turkey. Oh, yeah.

41:13 So, yeah, well, obviously, the Turkish role at this point is just, like, you know, they were having truck convoys of ISIS being oiled in Turkey during, like, the Syria war and stuff like that. It's like, yes, Turkey's cut Saudi Arabia, Qatar, all fund al-Qaeda. They're sort of, like, the cutouts to, like, the ordinary people who would want to fight on behalf of America and Israel. So it's, like, they answer to these.

41:41 Muslim countries, they think they're fighting for Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Turkey, but really they're fighting for the U.S. and the CIA and Mossad. That is crazy. I find it interesting the amount of research that you have done on this. And you said that you originally caught on to the whole Ukrainian

42:11 smoke and mirrors by researching Iran-Contra. Well, that's part of it. Also, a major one is Yugoslavia. So tell us about Yugoslavia. Basically, during the 90s, there was Yugoslavia, which during the Cold War, it was a socialist country, but it broke from the Soviet Union and it made a secret deal with NATO. It was sort of served as useful purpose as a sort of neutral country between the Soviets and the West.

42:39 During World War II, MI6 had worked with those Yugoslav partisans like Tito, so they had this relationship. And so Stalin never trusted him, even though he was probably loyal. Anyways, they had this split. And then after the Cold War, the U.S. decided to break up Yugoslavia into these TD countries based on the different ethnicities. And you have Croatia, which is very similar to the Ukrainians.

43:07 where there was this fascist group worse than the Nazis, basically, the Ustashi. And they were, like, best friends with the OUMB prior to World War II and stuff, even. And especially afterwards. And in Bosnia, you had, like, this Muslim Brotherhood-inspired type government. And then you had...

43:32 Then you had the Serbs, which have close ties to Russia. So basically it was this proxy war between the U.S. and Russia, but Russia was sort of like a puppet of the U.S. at the time, so it didn't really help Yugoslavia much. And at the end it was broken up, and then Serbia was broken up into, what's that, Montenegro was split off from Serbia even.

43:57 So they create these teeny little countries that will just have no choice but to do whatever the EU or NATO says because, you know, they're just, like, insignificant and they can't really do anything on their own to resist corporations or the EU. And they'll just be sort of, like, nice little puppets. And they want to break up everything. That's, like, Israel's plan for the Middle East is to, like, break up all these countries into these teeny little sectarian states so that there'll never be a threat to Israel. And, of course, that was what, like, Syria, Libya, and all these...

44:26 strategies for the past 30 years have been about is like breaking up, weakening, destroying all these countries in the Middle East so that they'll never be a threat to Israel. Yeah, we actually found a document that talks about this strategy. And that stuff, that thinking goes back to the 19th century and the Zionist movement. Correct. Because you have not only the Yugoslavia, but they've been doing it in Lebanon. You know, and many people say that that's exactly what happened and why we went immediately into Korea is.

44:56 In addition to trying to reinstall Chiang Kai-shek back into China. But when we couldn't achieve that, then breaking them up so that there's no unity there. And the same thing in Vietnam. And you just see this perpetually going around the world in many of the different places in redefining to basically break any future resistance. Yes. Yeah, that's amazing. What else?

45:27 And I find it interesting, just so that everybody can see the correlation here. The whole Bosnia-Yugoslavia quote-unquote war was waged during the time that Wesley Clark was the NATO general. And for those of you who've been following our information, Wesley Clark, as NATO commander, would have been in charge of all of the...

45:55 Operation Gladio assets throughout Europe during his tenure as NATO commander. And of course, it's not surprising that in the disaster in Waco, he was also the local military commander at Fort Hood that provided all the resources for them to do the raid on the Waco compound. That's crazy. Okay, I didn't know that about Waco.

46:25 Wesley Clark almost started World War III with the Russians in the 90s when, I think it was 1999, the Russians got fed up with, like, what NATO was doing and they sent their troops to this airport. And Wesley Clark's like, no. And so he sent the NATO forces to go confront them and it was like, nearly led to this shooting war between Russia and NATO during the Yeltsin years. So that was sort of like, 1999 was the final straw when the U.S. bombs

46:55 They basically gave Serbia, like, you have to allow us to do whatever we want in your country. And just basically, like, we allowed the military to occupy your country. That was their peace terms, because they would reject it. And then they bombed it, basically. And Russia saw NATO destroyed, started bombing Serbia after, like, Russia had been like, you know, calm down, Serbia. Don't rock the boat. Like, the West could be our friends. That's why they were like...

47:20 no, this is like a threat to us. Like we're next on the list. And that's why they brought Putin to power basically because of the Clintons and like Wesley Clark's antics. Correct. Definitely not a good guy. I also want to bring everyone's attention to, we did a book review on Otto Skorzeny and his role in training the original cast of characters in Ukraine.

47:49 for like back in the Stetsco Bandera, because him and Reinhard Galen were both put up at the Hilton concentration camps too, and then transitioned into important NATO roles after World War II. So this kind of all fits the same model. Yes, like Squirtini was sort of the head of the underground boot Nazi.

48:14 ss movement that like was after the war where they're sort of like you know they continue to operate and then galen had headed like the official american one so they're so get uh sort of like the off the books fourth reich and galen's like the american approved version of it and they're working closely together and of course all over the world and of course we've talked about moving these nazi war camels to um

48:41 America, Canada, and Australia, but of course they moved him also to Latin America and to the Middle East. And Scorsese was working with all the different Arab nationalist movements and trained their forces, but then he also made a secret deal with the Israelis, so he's betraying the Egyptians at the same time and helping them kill Egyptian scientists.

49:05 Yeah, he was quite busy as and I don't know if you found this in your research, but we found the documents that tied him. He was being paid through the Air Force, the U.S. Air Force in base contract him and his partner in Spain, in Madrid, to build U.S. military bases in Spain.

49:25 So that's how NATO was paying Otto Skorzeny to be their basic, like, gladio trainer. He planned missions for them. He trained assassins for them. And it was done through U.S. Air Force contract to build military facilities in Spain. I haven't heard that detail, but, yeah, he had this kind of paladin mercenary group, which was, like, with all of the world.

49:51 The Nazi Blackwater. And also Scrutini was married to, I think it was a crop, like this big German, like the daughter of one of these huge German weapons manufacturers. He was a salesman for them too. Yeah, he has quite the story. And we found him in the coup in the Congo and several other U.S.

50:16 Gladio-style overthrows of government in Algeria. He was part of that operation on behalf of France. So they kept him quite busy. Absolutely. That's one of the things I like to write about is people that go all over the world and are involved in so many different...

50:39 covert operations and missions. So, like, you learn all these things that most people don't even know ever happened. Like, people like Ted Shackley at the CIA or Stefano Della Chiai, this Italian guy that, like, first he went to Spain, like, hung out with the Scorsese-type people, and then he went to Greece. Then he went to, like, Latin America and worked with all, like, the fascist governments in, like, Argentina and Chile and the Bolivian cocaine coup.

51:08 Yeah, he was one of the few that shows up on almost all of the coups. Yeah, Gladio. And he's, of course, a WACO member. I like people like that. The worse they are, the more interesting I find them. True. It definitely, when you start researching it from that perspective, which is kind of what we did as well, you find out that all of the history that we were taught is basically...

51:37 completely backwards of reality. Yeah. People aren't supposed to know anything about history. They're just supposed to turn on the news and nothing has any context. It's just sort of happening. It's just the way the world is. You're not really supposed to be like, how did this get this way? You're not supposed to go back and study the history of all the Israeli wars so you can understand the history of the Middle East and stuff. You're just supposed to be ignorant and constantly be like, what's the next thing?

52:06 What clothes should I buy? What TV show is coming out? What's the shiny new thing that will distract me from reality? So what is kind of, if you had one thing that was the most profound thing that you've discovered that kind of, what is the one thing?

52:32 that you would want everyone to take away from the research that you've done? It's hard to say, but I would say maybe just the fact that these former fascists, their role in the Cold War is just so ever-present in every element of it. And the fact that this was just completely unknown until the 80s or 90s. I mean, some people know about it, but just the fact that you could...

53:03 get away with supporting anybody and just tell them, like, on the news, they'll just call them freedom fighters and people won't believe it, no matter whether they're Nazis, whether they're Al-Qaeda, what have you. As long as you referred to them as communists, you could get away with anything. Well, the silence critics basically do it. Like, if you were saying, like, you brought up the fact that Alan Dulles and his brother had been, like...

53:29 funding the Nazis before the war. They're just like, that is what they're saying in Moscow. You are repeating communist propaganda, which means either you are a communist sympathizer or you're a communist, which means you hate America, so we should listen to you and we should send the FBI to investigate you, basically. That was, they kept it, they used, oh yes, like I said, every aspect of it. Like McCarthy was working with these Nazis and they were providing all this intelligence from this Nazi independent.

53:59 It's a private intelligence contracting firm called The Pond, and they were the ones supplying all this money, I mean, all the information, and Shekai Shek's people were the ones, like, funding the whole Red Scare. So it's, like, even, like, McCarthyism itself is just sort of a part of this Nazi fascist involvement with, like, mainstream American politics and, like, that's just the state. Right, but it's...

54:28 That in and of itself became became the psyop. Right. If you didn't have all of that stuff happening and you didn't paint the whole communist and attack anybody that.

54:41 tried to say something, oh, but you've got the fascist over here, and it's like, shut up, you're a commie lover. Yeah, basically, like, when World War II ended, the opinion polls were like, Americans just wanted peace, and they just wanted to go back to normal. But, of course, these people wanted to start a Cold War, and it only took them two years to completely shift that around and get everybody panicked that the Soviet Union was going to take over the world.

55:04 which they couldn't do because they were so damaged from World War II that they were just concentrating on rebuilding, not trying to start another war. Right. Which they knew, but of course, they needed to get the arms budget set up and stuff. To keep military Keynesianism going, they needed to, you know, World War II got us out of the Depression and we're like, we can't just go back to how it was before that. We need to have a permanent standing army and to justify that, we need to...

55:31 have communism as the enemy. But then once the Cold War ends, you realize it's just all about power and money because Russia's not communist, but we're still acting like they are communist because it's convenient. Well, but the PSYOPs changed to radical Islam, right? So you always have to have a boogeyman. They're always going to have a boogeyman. And that's way more of a joke because they really did hate communists, but they are...

55:58 They do not hate radical Islam, obviously. Some of our closest allies are radical Islamists like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. I'm going to push back a little bit on that. For exactly the reason you already identified, the same people that were funding the fascist in Germany funded the communist in Russia.

56:29 I disagree with that. Well, Trotsky and Lenin both were funded by New York City and London. I think it's, well, I'm sort of, I'm a communist, but I think that's sort of overplayed. I mean, there were economic, there are people that are powerful enough that they could get away with doing business in Russia and not, and not get like in trouble for like doing business for the communist country, like an enemy country. But I think that's just because they had that much of influence. And like Russia has huge,

56:59 resources even back then you had you know the guy that was their whole purpose in doing it is they wanted the resources in these countries so overthrowing the czar provided them entree regardless of what government gets installed into the country you had general electric move right in and electrify all of bolshevik um communist

57:24 Soviet Union, you had the railroad magnets immediately jump on board and start putting railroads throughout all of now what we're going to call the Soviet Union. And so they sent Red Cross missions over there that had nothing to do with Red Cross because they were all businessmen under the guise of spying on what opportunities they were. And they even set up New York and London bankers in the banks that they set up in Soviet Union.

57:55 Yeah, I'm going to disagree. I'm not saying that everything you're saying is not true. I'm just saying that I interpret the reasons for it separately, yes. I mean, there were American corporations that operated in Stalin's Soviet Union. They helped them build up the force that eventually beat the Nazis as well. And so in that sense, you're right. But I think that ultimately...

58:24 the Soviet Union actually was more of a threat to big business because they did not have Soviet corporations. It was all state-owned. And they really, Stalin really... They were a threat after the... After the Russian Civil War, there was a period where they had to reintroduce capitalism called the New Economic Period. So that sort of explains that part of it. And then when Stalin needed to industrialize, that was the same time that...

58:50 FDR decided to recognize the Soviet Union and they needed help industrializing. So these American corporations went in there and American workers went into the Soviet Union to help them build up. But in general, I would say that they really did want to stop communism because that would be taking away the money. Ultimately, America...

59:16 is behind the government, you've got the big corporations. And they do not want all their stuff to be seized by governments. Which is technically fascism. Right. So they definitely gravitate towards fascist, totalitarian kind of Mussolini models. But at the same time, and see, this is, Hugo, what I've kind of come to appreciate. If they don't create the boogeyman,

59:42 and somewhat contain and control the boogeyman, they can't use the boogeyman to do their dastardly deeds. And I have come to appreciate this model more after doing all this research. And I'll just give you one other example. Cuba. Cuba was Castro and his brother were trained by the CIA, along with Che Cabrera, to overthrow Batista's government after they installed Batista because he was getting out of control.

1:00:11 So the CIA likes both to control both sides. Right. So they'll fund both sides of a revolution so that they can control the outcome. And you have to believe that the CIA, who could go into any country and assassinate any president across the world, tried 400 times and could never assassinate Castro. That part may or may not be true. I'm not even going to argue that point.

1:00:37 But he's 90 miles from our coast and they never could put a glove on him. So let's just say that somehow that actually happened. The thing that I found most fascinating about every coup in Latin America, and I mean every one of them, and there's over 40, is the premise in print every single time to justify U.S. aiding the, quote unquote, rebels like the Contras.

1:01:04 was that we couldn't afford to have another Castro. We couldn't afford to have another communist government in our hemisphere. And so the use of these, in the case of Castro, CIA created and trained boogeymen reappear periodically. The same thing with Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan and the dictator that they installed in South Korea. They are used perpetually.

1:01:32 as a thing that we have to avoid having this while at the same time we helped create it. I don't consider Del Castro to be sort of a CIA puppet, but it was true that it was a part of the CIA that was supporting Castro.

1:01:58 prior to him winning. And I didn't say he was a CIA puppet. And there was actually people in the CIA that were called, they called themselves Fidelistas, basically. But Castro, we have to remember that Castro wasn't actually a communist until, he didn't declare himself a communist until after relations broke down. So they knew that Batista had to go and they thought maybe they could control.

1:02:22 Castro could be like a Nasser type figure. Correct. A populist nationalist. They use it to their advantage, though. I would definitely say that, yes. Ultimately, you're right because Castro did not have to be the enemy of the U.S. They chose to turn him into a boogeyman. He would have been happy to have him.

1:02:42 friendly relations instead, but because, you know, things escalated and then they tried to overthrow him. And the one president that reached out to try to normalize relationships with him was JFK. Of course. And we know what happened with that. That would shut down the boogeyman. We can't have him get rid of the boogeyman. Stop it. Sorry about that. My dogs are getting a little crazy.

1:03:10 But yeah, I just find that very interesting. And of course, for me, as with any researcher, there are things like we refer to them as patterns that after you come across the seventh coup. Oh, let me just say this one quick. You can, I'm going to be, I'm going to be myself for a couple of minutes. So go ahead and I'll just tell you when I'm on mute or whatever. Okay.

1:03:34 Yeah. After you come across the seventh coup that has used the exact same mantra as the reason why they're doing what they're doing, you start to go back in time and reevaluate all of the things that you used as the foundation to go, well, wait a minute. And especially when you get to the aspect of something like a Cuba where, again.

1:04:02 The CIA assassinated hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals that, in remarkable ways, very original ways of doing it to include a heart attack gun, that we are supposed to believe that they could never touch Castro. And at this point,

1:04:31 I'm on the bandwagon of I don't believe that. But anyway, that's me. So, Cousin It, Bridget, you guys want to make any observations of what we've talked about today before we open the mics up? Yes. Hugo, thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate it. For those of you that are new here, Hugo.

1:05:03 has done extensive research on the nazis out of the ukrainian and russian area um that being said one of the ways that i have found him was his information on alexander dugan um i don't know if everybody recalls a couple of years ago daria dugana was killed in a car bomb and there was a lot of propaganda going around how alexander dugan is like the

1:05:33 the sage of the Kremlin. And that's not exactly true. And Hugo, if you don't mind your research on Alexander Dugan, I found fascinating. If you wouldn't mind touching on that briefly and how he was involved with Italy and Spain, I think that would also give a heads up as to who this guy actually is and how it ties into Navalny.

1:06:03 Okay, I think he had to take a break for a couple of seconds, Cousin It. So he's going to be right back with us. I wrote that down as a note. And we'll have him address that when he does come back. Well, shoot. I just put down the gun. I was up for squirrels. He was saying, oh, I have an update for you on squirrel hunting, too. You just need to get you an Escapoo. My husband said she brought two to the door today. So I don't even have to waste bullets. What a good girl.

1:06:35 dog it's hilarious but yeah two of them that's wow that's not sporting at all i think it's awesome but anyway that's me bridget what are your comments yeah it's it's it just goes back into this giant web um and and the more you know for a long time i kept on getting uh

1:07:04 distracted by the web and i couldn't see the threads that weave within it but really there's just a handful of we'll say pivotal key people that keep keep popping up those are the main threads in this web that had someone addressed this years ago could have sure saved a whole lot of lives and a whole lot of misery oh i think we dropped she dropped off

1:07:36 You still there, Bridget? Yes, ma'am. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you now. Okay. But it seems like there's a few very specific individuals that were plucking the strings of all of this. You know, just like we were seeing with the Nazis and how they got redistributed. It could have been taken care of. This could have been stopped. Yeah, of course it could have.

1:08:08 I mean, they could have actually had a Nuremberg trial. Right. And this was such an intentional deception that's still going on today. Until they start rectifying or admitting that this stuff happened, I don't see how it can ever be rectified. Okay, Hugo. Hi, I'm back. Okay, Hugo. Cousin It has a couple of things that she wanted you to talk about. Yeah, I heard a question. Okay, go ahead.

1:08:39 Yeah, Dugan. He's a fascinating figure. I covered Dugan in my Underground Bike Series, which is a sort of earlier series I did, inspired by radio talk show host slash researcher Dave Emery, where you can find thousands of hours of shows that he's done. He's been doing this stuff since the 80s.

1:09:03 I was like seven, basically. I only found out about him actually like a year after I started my blog. Anyways, he interviewed two authors, Kevin Coogan and Martin Lee, who were focused on the strange mutating nature of some of these post-war fascist movements. And in Italy, you had the third way type of fascism. And it was sort of...

1:09:31 tried to merge fascism with communism, basically. You had Nazi Maoism and stuff like that. So anyways, Dugin in Russia was inspired by this. So he created the fourth way or the fourth positional theory. And he's sort of a chameleon figure because each of the four positions his followers can pretend to be. They can pretend to be liberals. They can pretend to be communists. They can pretend to be Nazis.

1:09:57 Or they can, you know, just be like Duganist. And sort of like he has elements of all of these. So you'll have, you know, Duganist talking to like left-wing people and, you know, communist left-wing people. And at the same time, they'll like do another interview where they're talking to like a far-right person. So, you know, know your audience, manipulate it.

1:10:23 In the press, they call him Putin's brain. He's not really that important in Russia, but he's way more important than he should be. He co-wrote the Communist Party of Russia's platform, and he's signed his book on geopolitics in the military school. I think that's why basically his followers are useful because one of his obsessions is geopolitics, and geopolitics is something that if you want to understand

1:10:52 the world you just sort of like view it as a chessboard and that's how like you know that's how the american empire thinks and that's how like russia that's how everybody thinks basically we use um russia is important because it occupies this position at the top of um dominates eurasia basically so like so in that sense it's like natural position is that dominate the eurasian heartland

1:11:17 And to counter that, you have the British version, which is focused on the sea. So to dominate Eurasia, they built this huge navy and built all these bases all over the coast of China and all over the world, basically. So Dugan's obsessions are... He portrays himself these days just sort of as... I'm just a conservative, orthodox guy, but he's actually...

1:11:46 He used to also be openly a Satanist, an occultist. So his defenders would be like, he's just a conservative. It's traditionalism. Well, traditionalism is actually this sort of, it's a form of fascism from Italy, basically. And it had this sort of double thing where like, you know, it's sort of like the Nazis themselves. It's like publicly like, oh, we'll just get Christians. And then privately they're like.

1:12:15 all obsessed with, let's create a worship of the sun cult and a warrior caste and stuff like that, and a secret brotherhood that will dominate the world. That's like Julius Evola, one of the major influences on Dugan. So basically, he takes out all these influences from all around the world and merges it into this very paradoxical form of fascism that many say pro-Russian albedo figures are actually these secret Duganists.

1:12:44 And the thing about Dugan that just pisses me off is that he, like if he was just pro-Russian, not pro-Russian, I would have fed this. But Dugan was in, his followers were in Ukraine and they were working with these Ukrainian fascists. And like these Ukrainian fascists, some of them are former Duganists, like even Zelensky's former presidential advisor, Rostovitch.

1:13:07 He is a former Duganist. And they were also working in, like, Turkey. They were working with these, like, Al-Qaeda groups. So, basically, they were working with all the people that are, like, fighting, like, the multipolar world order, fighting Russia. So, it's, like, it's very treacherous in my view. And, yes, the Ukrainian, their stay-behind network in Russia assassinated Dugan's daughter, like, early in the war, Daria Dugan, who was...

1:13:37 And she was like a fascist also. And she was very good at handling Western fans of Dugan. So many mourned her loss. And it's kind of, obviously it's messed up to murder someone's daughter. But I cry more for just sort of innocent civilians. And they definitely target family members as part of their actual terror campaign.

1:14:08 You get it, the Ukrainians. Well, it's not clear whether they intended to kill Dugan and accidentally kill his daughter, but maybe they did just intend to kill his daughter or whatever. I'm just saying they have done that. That is a tactic. Yes. Oh, yeah, definitely. The dirty war, that's what it's all about. It's still like the person runs away to fight in the woods as a guerrilla and you just massacre their family while they're gone. Yes. Yes. They did that a lot. They do that a lot.

1:14:36 Yes, Israel does it, America does it, everybody does it. And that's like also, you know, in torture they would kidnap the people's families so they would torture the family to make the other person talk or play recordings of it or hold hostages. This stuff goes back to the ancient world.

1:14:56 Well, and that's one of the things that the Ustasy and those were doing, that if they wanted somebody to talk, they kidnapped their family and then tortured the family in front of the person they wanted them to talk. Yes. But like people like the Ustasy and the Ukrainians, it's like they just took such.

1:15:17 delight and such humor and such it was like a carnival of sadism when they did this stuff and it's sort of like that's the messed up thing is just like these ordinary presidents just sort of you know it's like high school bullying but like by serial killers kind of thing we're just like to them it's fun to torture this person and make them beg for mercy and really that had to persist very much to this day where they're like if you say something that's like

1:15:44 I want peace in Ukraine or something, they'll say, like, we're going to, like, put you on a bottle, which literally means, like, they're going to sodomize you with, like, a bottle and have you kidnapped by the secret police, the SBU, and that's what's going to happen to you. And to them, that's funny. And that's what they were doing. And one of the things that we did not touch on was that I bring up often is that New York Times article that was published now, like, six months ago that acknowledged the CIA setting up those,

1:16:13 underground facilities in the immediate aftermath of the 2014 coup. And they were using them to launch the operations into the Donbass region where they assassinated 11 mayors and they were bombing cities. They were kidnapping people. They were assassinating people. And those are basically modeled on the stay behind units where they were launching those operations. And a lot of them happened from.

1:16:41 the Kolomoisky quote-unquote governed area. Oh, absolutely. I mean, even though there's people in every area of Ukraine that support Russian-occupied Ukraine, that there is a Gladio behind Russian lies, that there was a Gladio just in the separatist republics that assassinated all the people that were considered heroes.

1:17:08 heroes, to why people supported the Russian separatists, they were all assassinated within a year. Some of them were assassinated by corrupt people on their own side, but a lot of them were killed by the Ukrainian intelligence. But to them, everybody that lived in that area, whether they're a grandma or a four-year-old child, was a terrorist. They called it the anti-terrorist operation. They were quite openly saying, you know,

1:17:36 It's going to be great that your children will have to live in basements for the next 10 years and will never go to go to school because we're just going to keep shelling you nonstop and cutting off your power and not paying you anything. So they declared war on the whole people, of course, like assassinating the ringleaders they felt no remorse at all about, of course. And it's important to understand that when you use the term Ukrainian intelligence.

1:18:01 There really wasn't a separate Ukrainian intelligence function. It pretty much was locked hip to hip with the CIA, much like the Pakistani, quote unquote, ISI was never independent. It was always a cohort of the CIA. Oh, yeah. You also remind me, like when I said earlier that.

1:18:25 Well, the Ukrainian intelligence guy said we need to adopt the tactics of the OUN-UPA. That's the same guy that the New York Times interviewed for this thing. That article is such a joke because, like, right after Maidan, the CIA decided, hey, you know, let's go see what's going on in Ukraine after the coup. It's like, of course they were involved long before the coup. And it's like, oh.

1:18:52 why did they call this guy? Oh, because he was already working with them, like, for the past 20 years. It's like, they try to sell people on this idea that, like, oh, we definitely weren't involved in a Baydad coup or anything, you know, or the Revolution of Dignity, as they call it, or the, you know, the Baydad Revolution or the Revolution of Dignity. Not a coup, of course. Right. Well, and, Hugo, I know you're new to our things, but for me, being my military background, I'm very strict on language when we talk about stuff because...

1:19:22 Just because I know the tactics of psyops and the use and co-opting of words, I firmly believe that, of course, it was a coup.

1:19:34 But the use of the CIA creating this brand new term called color revolution, it allows for a separation that if you go back and you do a word search on color revolution, you only start seeing them in the 2000s. If you do a word search on CIA coups, you find them all the way back to 1948.

1:19:56 Oh, yes, of course. The original name for Color Revolution was a people-powered coup. And so the first one was actually in the Philippines when they overthrew Marcos, who was an ally. Of course. I think actually the critics of these movements created the name Color Revolution because they called them revolutions and they just each happened to have this branding color because they have no goals.

1:20:25 like, the ordinary people seem to have, like, no goals or purpose. It's just sort of, like, what the NGOs say is democracy or something. And then, of course, you have the undercurrent of the hardcore nationalists or Islamist groups that, like, also could participate in. So you have either the extremists or you have these liberal NGO people, and they're allied very closely. In Ukraine, you see this, where, like, the liberal, it's like, they're not, like, our liberals because they're, like, you know,

1:20:54 I kind of really like Stephen Bandera. Like, I know he's problematic, but, you know, he's sort of like my problematic fave. That's like the liberal attitude in Ukraine. Right. We like the Nazis. Right. Well, it goes back to the, they like anything that is opposite of what we're told to hate, which was the communist. Yeah. And it's just sort of this, they have the same kind of under, like, the sort of liberalism that...

1:21:23 they have in Eastern Europe is very much this sort of, you know, the West is superior. And they think that the Europe, just because Ukraine is to the West of Russia, that doesn't mean it's in Western Europe. I mean, there's still like all these Eastern European countries to the West of Ukraine, you know, like Poland is Czechoslovakia, Hungary, all these Eastern European countries. They're not Western Europeans. That's like, we're in the West of Russia. So like, this goes back to Dostoevsky. It's like, we,

1:21:54 We will import everything from the West instead of Russia, basically. That's a Ukrainian nationalist thing. And that's actually why Stalin, originally the Bolsheviks, supported the Ukrainian language and stuff. Russian nationalists hate the fact that the Soviet Union is...

1:22:14 promoted Ukrainian culture and helped create this fake country, basically, as they say it. But the reason why Stalin cracked down on them in 1929, which they never mentioned why, is because these Soviet Ukrainians were saying, we need to bottle everything out of the West. And they're all like, there's these great guys in the...

1:22:36 Ukrainian guys in, like, Western Ukraine, they're doing this great avant-garde poetry, like Dmitry Dostoevsky and his disciples. So, like, they're fans of fashion, they're fans of, you know, we need to do everything the way the West wants to do it, which is obviously not what you want when you're, like, fighting a war with, a Cold War with the West in your country. So that's why they cracked down on the Ukrainizers in 1929. Yeah, they always leave that part out.

1:23:05 So you mentioned modern day other areas like Moldova that are basically experiencing some very similar aspects of what went on in Ukraine. Can you talk a little bit more about that? I know like a lot less about Moldova, but Moldova is sort of like Ukraine in a sense.

1:23:30 It's kind of a fake country. It's just a part that they carved off of Romania. I love it. And they speak Romanian. You're talking my language, all of these fake countries. I talk about them all the time. I love the fact that you do too. Go ahead. So anyways, when...

1:23:47 There was basically this civil war in the early 90s in eastern Moldova. It's very confusing. It was in Transnistria. So basically, the Soviet army was left over there. And they were like the Moldovan, this kind of nationalist movement. So like all these sort of Russian separatists ended up carving this part of Moldova called Transnistria off. And they sort of like, they kept the Soviet Union. It's like a mini Soviet Union, but not really. But so for the past...

1:24:16 30 years, half of Moldova is occupied by this Russian separatist thing. And actually all the electricity in Moldova comes from this part that's controlled by these pro-Russian separatists, basically. And so there's this constant danger that Ukraine is going to invade Transnistria and crush these people because Russia can't really supply them.

1:24:42 because they're cut off from it by Ukraine. And every year or so, there's this panic among the pro-Russian crowd that Ukraine is about to invade Transnistria. And NATO is always encouraging Moldova to start the civil war again to reclaim Transnistria. But because they generate the power and stuff, it's very inconvenient. So it hasn't happened yet.

1:25:07 And the Russian dream is, of course, to retake Odessa and then create a land ridge to Transnistria. So they'll have this like strip that goes from Russia to Transnistria. They'll control the whole Black Sea coast and stuff. And I do think that's kind of the key to this whole thing for everything that you just said. Odessa seems to be like one of the pivot points, not only for the water access, but also to ethnic Russian populations.

1:25:36 that they feel a need to protect against the West. And here's a newsflash. They wouldn't feel a need to protect them if the West would quit trying to attack them. Oh, absolutely. And that's a very fascinating city. And actually, I think Jewish organized crime, they had this huge Jewish organized crime movement that they moved to America and stuff. So probably like the origins of American organized crime just to play an important role. And in Russia, there's like this kind of,

1:26:07 gangster culture that comes out of Odessa. They have these folk music that celebrates the criminal underground. In Mexico, they have music formally about outlaws, down by narcos. In America, we have gangster rap and stuff like that. This is the 19th century I'm talking about in the early 20th century. Odessa has this large Russian and Jewish population and Greek population.

1:26:35 right after the Maidan coup, they were like very pro-Russian and they're like, you know, they held this huge, they're holding these huge marches and stuff. And so they sent these fascist paramilitaries there. They got into the street battle and then they like, the people that like were the fighters like disappeared. And so, and then the fascist paramilitaries chased like.

1:27:03 of, like, dad-violent people, like, into this building and then, like, lit it on fire. And then the Ukrainians were, like, joking. The Ukrainian politicians were all joking. It's like, this is a wonderful barbecue. They killed, like, 150 innocent people in this Odessa Trade Union building. It's very famous in Russia. It's called the Odessa Massacre. And the survivors had jumped out of the burning building. They'd beaten to death with metal rods. And so, like, that was a major cause of the Civil War. Like, when the Russians saw that, they were like...

1:27:31 These people are serious. This isn't just some, like, you know, propaganda that the Ukrainians are out to get us. Like, they are serious. And the Ukrainians were like, you know, we'll burn these Colorado Beatles because the St. George's ribbon, I guess, looks like the same color as a beetle. And they were just celebrating the death of all these people in this fire. And like, thank God, you know, we stopped those Russian separatists with it. And then...

1:28:00 They made this Georgian president who had started this war with Russia into the governor of Odessa. Mikhail Saakashvili. So it's like a bizarre... And for Russia, this is like the major port of Ukraine for all the great supplies that they did out of. And so it's a major dream to retake Odessa, both to avenge the Odessa massacre and also for economic and that's the part of...

1:28:29 Ukraine, they want all the coastline because Russia, it's a huge landmass, but it doesn't have that much coastline. There are a lot of ports and stuff. So that's like their obsession geopolitically. And just for any one of you guys that have watched The Ghost of B. Patrick Henry or The Alpha, they did a couple of shows on the Pale of Settlement. That's in that same area where...

1:28:54 all of the Jewish people were kind of pushed into that area by the czar in Russia and where that was set up, you know, way back when. And so that's all that same conversation. So when he talked about the Jewish mafia and where those people originally came from, that's what he's referring to. So just so y'all can make that connection. Yeah, I'm definitely not an anti-Semitic theorist, but I'm interested in the history of organized crime.

1:29:22 If you're an honest researcher, you have to understand people focus on the Italians, but sort of like Meyer Lansky was the real boss above Luciano. Absolutely. And one of the things that, one of the aspects of this whole conversation that people have asked me repeatedly about when we first started our revelations, if you will, or our deep dive into this historical mess was

1:29:50 How do you transition from what happened prior to World War II to the aftermath of World War II? And for me, conceptually, all of the elements of regime change that had occurred in the late 1800s, early 1900s, were basically orchestrated internationally by the same group of oligarchs and corporation, trust, whatever you want to call it, and government entities. But the only...

1:30:19 or country that had a formalized intelligence agency was MI6 out of the UK. And what they found was that so many of the different pieces required to overthrow governments were outside of the government. And in order to be able to protect them from prosecution, they basically took all of the criminal elements to include

1:30:49 the mafia, and incorporated them into all of the brand new intelligence agencies that popped up around the world. So you had this melding of, you know, businessmen, lawyers, like they had combined into the OSS, working with the mafia. And they had basically this open door, but they all were protected by a rubber stamp called national security.

1:31:18 under the auspices of intel agencies like the CIA post-World War II. Absolutely. That's one of my other major obsessions. Of course, the CIA and drugs and the history that goes back to before World War II to Chiang Kai-shek's China. The truth is that you cannot smuggle drugs unless you have.

1:31:43 people in the government of the country are smuggling into that are helping you to do it and are protecting you and you have to get a pass and like you can't just if you're just and if you the people that they bust are the people that don't have the clearance to smoke the competition yes and like yeah basically the whole war on drugs is to

1:32:03 like switch sides between who you're targeting and like when it becomes convenient, you like bust this person, but you let somebody else rise up and then eventually bust them. Yeah, we found out that we traced back the quote unquote Nixon war on drugs to basically being the elimination of the French Corsican mafia and moving it all down to Sicily, which the CIA controlled. There was no actual war on drugs. There was a war on the CIA's competition.

1:32:34 Yes. There's a book called The Great Heroine Coup, which is like a classic book, which also talks about Wacko, too. Yes. Yeah, I have that book, too. And the fact that they use copy pens for holidays. Not any holiday, the Veterans Day. The Veterans Day, specifically to rub our noses. Yes. Yeah. Our wars are opium wars, and that was personified, as Bridget just said.

1:33:02 by the adoption of a copy pen on Veterans Day. And I never understood that. I didn't even get the correlation. It's a British thing. Yeah. I didn't know what they did in America, but I know they started doing it after World War I. Oh, yes. Yeah, they do it here. And I didn't even...

1:33:26 It didn't even kind of click in my head until we first started doing this research. And my husband looked at me and he goes, isn't that what they give out on Veterans Day? And I'm like, son of a bitch. Yeah, the era of Afghanistan. Well, I guess back in Vietnam. I don't know what they started doing. Well, it goes back to the Boxer Wars. Yeah, it goes back to the Boxer Wars in China. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, they've been doing it for a long time.

1:33:56 Biggest drug king in the world. It's like if you include coffee and alcohol, like the whole slave trade was like the rum molasses slave trade. So it's like just always the empire of drugs have always been connected. Obviously, alcohol is legal, but it's still a drug. It's actually a pretty powerful drug. No, but that's actually a good point because what happened, the whole prohibition thing was manipulated in order for them to get rich.

1:34:26 So you're absolutely right. I mean, that was so when they implemented prohibition in the United States, they didn't do it in Canada. And so that's how Stegrams and Crown and all those guys in Canada got rich by running it down to the Pritzkers and all of the mafia elements in the north in New York and Detroit and Chicago. All of that became their way of becoming millionaires.

1:34:57 Yep. The Bronfmans. And the Bronfmans, you're right. Yep. I think they're crown, right? I'm not sure. Or Seagrams, one or the other. Maybe both. But yes, the Bronfmans. All your Jewish mafia from the Pale of Settlements. It goes right back. It's like a circle. Yes. Okay. Well, there's one element of the organized crime thing.

1:35:31 You've got the Yakuza, and they're, like, so close to the government. So, yeah, basically, that's, like, Peter Dale Scott, deep politics. You know, you've got the corporations, the intelligence agencies, and organized crime. That sort of creates this whole area of all the things we can't talk about, and now we're covering it up. And so that's why, like, 90% of everything is classified, and people live in sort of a dream world, because it's sort of, like, they're sort of...

1:36:00 The simplistic view of good versus evil and, you know, a cop on these TV shows would never be a dirty cop, usually. Or, like, they would never accept bribes, even if, like, say, in many cities, it would be, like, quite normal for most of the police to take bribes. Right.

1:36:16 Or for, like, people used to know that, like, everything was corrupted. It was controlled by machine politics. But, like, once they got to television, they managed to convince everybody, you know, it's all innocent. And, you know, anybody who talks about it is just a conspiracy theorist. Right. So does anybody have any questions for our guest? I see Guru. Let me bring him up. Guru is from Australia. Okay. Guru, you got a question or a comment?

1:36:57 My phone and that as far as I know. And yeah, so I was just asking for a mic so I could actually listen to the conversation. Colonel, if that's fine for the moment. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. I'm glad. OK, thank you. Yeah. Just so that, you know, Hugo, our faces are targeted. There's there's always sound issues. Most people have to come back and listen to the recording because they are attacked nonstop. I get dropped from my own spaces all the time.

1:37:27 Because no one seems to like us talking about this stuff. Yeah. Twitter is censoring me since 2016, basically. I used to get thousands of hits a day. And then as soon as Russian Gate happened, it went down to 500. So I'm lucky if I get 700 a day or whatever. I used to get 4,000 because of the algorithm.

1:37:56 The media is censored and controlled. They can't have the internet because they can't have just everybody allowed to research and write. It could be dangerous. And that's what Bridget has found out about our account here is that when we had like 300 or 400 people, we had way more people looking at our post. We now have like 23,000 and we get less.

1:38:24 than we did when we had three or 400. It's the craziest thing that I have ever seen. And I just had someone today DM me saying that every time he goes to our page, that he can't see anything except for the last post that I made. The rest of the entire page is invisible. So I have the same problem. And even the glitches are not.

1:38:51 Okay, people will go in and out of spaces, all sorts of spaces, all during the day. We have some people that, you know, spend a lot of time on X, and they don't have any problem, but they come into ours, and the sound drops, or they'll hear every fourth word, or so on. Yeah, so it is a conscious effort by somebody to make sure that accurate history does not get portrayed to the masses. So all along, go ahead.

1:39:24 Hi. Yeah. Interesting program today. I just wanted to pick up on something Hugo said about, you know, the strategic facet of this whole, when he was talking about Dugganism. I mean, I think there's an extent to which you can, if you look also from like the British planners or whatnot, and I think to some extent, some part,

1:39:54 parts of Wall Street. They just had this strategic goal that they were going to do anything come hell and high water to prevent, you know, an alliance between Germany and Russia. And whether it be Russia or the Soviet Union didn't really matter. I mean, in other words, there was a sense to which that strategic objective of preventing a

1:40:24 a German and Russian alliance, superseded all of the ideologies. And after that, whatever ideological mix you wanted to throw in there, there would be significant factions in England and the U.S. who were going to back that for strategic reasons. And the ideology was almost like an advertising campaign. But that doesn't necessarily mean that those strategic

1:40:54 objectives of um factions of u.s and british banking were were necessarily the cause of the fundamental change but they were definitely an ingredient that's definitely a major element of like the history of like the great power things is that they're very concerned that if you had the

1:41:17 German industrial base and, like, having access to all the Russian natural resources, they would completely, you know, dominate the world, basically. And so, like, Russia alone was almost able to dominate, like, half of Europe. Obviously, they had... They were aligned to, say, Germany, a friendly Germany. They could have probably conquered the world. So that's, like, that's true. And, of course, like, even today, a major goal of...

1:41:45 provoking the Ukraine war was to keep, Germany is like the biggest investor, it was the biggest investor in Russia, basically. And so they wanted to prevent friendly relations between Germany and Russia. And what Russia had made, it's like, you know, you cannot associate it with these horrible barbarians that are conquering Ukraine, you know. And so Germany went the other way. Of course, they still complain about Germany on these, like, on some of these, like, think-tanker people on the Ukraine war, like Michael Kaufman and Rob Lee and stuff. They're like, you know.

1:42:13 Germany, you know, they're not doing enough. They're never doing enough. But from the Russian perspective, they did like a clean 180 of being like completely hostile once Russia invaded. Guru, go ahead. I'm just thinking in the background here, listening to the conversation, Colonel, it'd be good to do an experiment here because your spaces have gone down incredibly in volume and there's no reason for that, right? This is one of the most interesting

1:42:43 you know, backstories on the internet about where we are today and factual. So I'm thinking, and now sorry to break the conversation here, I just want to get this out before I go. We've got a bit of a day today. But I'm just thinking maybe if you didn't put Operation Gladio and maybe if you didn't use Colonel Towner and you got someone to host the space.

1:43:05 and, you know, put in, you know, something different, like don't come in here to learn about anything important or something, and just see how many people you pull. Because for you to pull 23 people in here is just absolutely ridiculous, Colonel. I've been here for a long time now, and I've watched your numbers drop under algorithms attack, I would say. So is it worth doing a little experiment on one of these and just see if we can punch it back up to, and then send that information off to Elon going, right, what the hell's going on, Elon?

1:43:34 You know, so I don't know. I just thought I had Colonel. I love you, Guru. You're absolutely right, because there used to be two or three hundred people in here at a time. And the more it's attacked, the more it happens. And so I do think you're right. I think we will change the name and we'll kind of do like a undercover operation. And we're going to figure out.

1:44:03 Whether or not that's the deal. Because honestly, you know, Guru, you're a brainiac. Because I was just having a conversation yesterday about the term Operation Gladio. There's something about that term that scares the living shit out of everybody. And because once you get that.

1:44:28 Everything else is on your own. You can find everything about your history if you start searching on Operation Gladio, just like we did. We're not any different than every one of you. We just had the time to do the research and bring it to you. And I made the comment to the person I was talking about to yesterday that I found it awful odd.

1:44:52 that even people that will come to me and DM me and ask me for where am I getting all my information, they will then go and they have hundreds of thousands of viewers, but they will never use that word, Operation Gladio. They talk about all this shit to some degree in a very limited hangout way, but they will never use that term. So I think you're absolutely right, Guru. All along, go ahead.

1:45:26 all along yeah oh go ahead you had something else no no i was just saying let's do it if you need to fall back on me i haven't put any i haven't hosted any spaces for a long time not that you know but yeah if you if you want to try and find someone and you know what i mean yeah that's what that's what i think would be it would be a good idea you know even for someone else to host it and and you know have you come in but don't put anything in the titles and i'll bet you

1:45:52 you know, maybe not me, because we'll pull a few people, yeah, sorry, but yeah, we'll pull a few people in, you know what I mean, just because maybe I'm sitting here and the Aussies will rock in, that's not what we want to do. Yeah, what we want to do is sit up with somebody else, you know what I mean, and then see what happens when people go, oh, oh, it's good, but bang, and then it starts getting shared out, because I reckon they're holding your numbers back. I come into this space, Colonel, I was just not hearing anything, and I'm going, right, I'll go out, I'll come back in, I'll

1:46:22 I go out, I come back in, and then as soon as I've asked for a mic, I seem to be okay. I can hear the whole conversation. Nothing's dropping out. And that happens to me a fair bit in spaces. So that could be my personal attack, what they do to me. Unless I've got a mic, I can't listen. But, yeah, I just think that we could prove a point here and then use that maybe.

1:46:41 I get that comment all the time. There's people that, there will be people that DM me that are probably in my DMs right now. I just don't look at them while I'm on. That says I tried and I can't get in and I can't hear you. Every day that happens. Also, people could get like headphones, like good headphones. It is quieter unless you're a speaker. I noticed like when I was just, it was like a bit quieter before I got the mic. But I could still hear it because I was waiting.

1:47:10 Nice headphones. But on the issue of Gladio, though, there's a great story about one of the more reformist CIA directors, Stan Phil Turner, who fired a bunch of the dirtiest people and is hated. There's obviously a different kind of backstory to that.

1:47:27 he was on Italian TV, and they asked him about Gladio, and he immediately said, like, fuck you, and stormed out of the interview. Oh, now, we just covered Stanfield Turner and Jimmy Carter and the Halloween Massacre and all of that. I have never heard that story, though. Where did you hear that? I don't remember where I read that, but...

1:47:50 I definitely remember that. And also, by the way, I was born the night of the Halloween massacre. So it's sort of like my mind. It's kind of like my destiny to screw with the CIA. Well, I have a similar story, Hugo. My birthday is April 19th, and that's the entry into the 10 days of some satanic ritual.

1:48:11 Death thing for 10 days, starting on the 19th, which is why Waco and Oklahoma and all that shit happens on the 19th all the time. That's interesting. Yeah. All along. Go ahead. Colonel, I just this is kind of speculative, but I mean, I've noticed a pattern where for a long, long time, this what I call.

1:48:41 The so-called left or the controlled left or in the CIA's phrase, the compatible left has really shied away from what I, you know, what was once called national security state history. And then more recently, you know, Trump supporters and, you know, not strictly Trump supporters, but people associated with the right for better or worse, you know, because we know those terms can be deceptive.

1:49:11 you know, have sort of picked up that football that the purported left is not really allowed to go to, in fact, has disinformation people like Noam Chomsky, who just fervently dissuade the U.S. controlled left from ever looking at the national security state, which name was changed to deep state. So is it possible that your space, you know, by looking at, you know,

1:49:40 national security state slash deep state and getting people who are not really necessarily political leaders of the Democrats and Republicans and might not be completely aligned in that sort of scissor blade mentality. Is it possible that this space might be a target for that reason that it kind of undermines the sort of scissor blade?

1:50:07 dualism of the Democrats and Republicans and enables the people of the United States to honestly talk about what the CIA has been doing for 50 years, independent of these two scissor blades called the Democrats and Republicans. I think it's possible that powers that be might not really find that all too groovy, as it were.

1:50:36 I definitely think that is a descriptive way of saying that we're being shadow banned. And for that reason, I, again, my personal opinion, people that I know, know about Operation Gladio refuse to use that particular term because I spent.

1:51:05 And just for you guys to know, I have two master's degrees. I spent 30 years inside of this system. I have a library that is hundreds of books big that I have all read. I've read all of them. And I never knew about Operation Gladio. I read things just to read things, to learn history, I thought.

1:51:35 And in doing that, I had a whole bunch of information, but it just rattled around in my head. It didn't actually form any logical conclusions. I didn't notice patterns, nothing. It was just info. It was not until I stumbled across Operation Gladio and we started digging into it and were.

1:52:00 was able, using those terms, Operation Gladio, then you come across the term paramilitary, so you add that to the search, then you come across CIA coups, which there are many, and you start adding these words to your search engine and your entire world blows up. Because all of a sudden, you can find all of them. You can find...

1:52:27 All of the Operation Gladio, you find World Anti-Communist League, you find the World Wildlife Fund, you find UNESCO. It just literally blows up and it all makes sense. And that's what I think they fear of normal Americans doing what we just did. Did you have something you wanted to say, Hugo? Oh, yeah. I was going to say, also, in addition to Operation Gladio, you should definitely study Operation Kaidor and study the Phoenix.

1:52:58 And it's like I found that like between those three, you get like a great view of how these operations and deep state things work. So, Hugo. There's this book called Predatory States by J.P. McSherry. If people haven't read, definitely read that. Yeah. It's like Doug Valentine. And of course, Doug Valentine's The Phoenix Program. So, yeah, we actually went through Doug Valentine's book here.

1:53:27 And we did just about every coup of Operation Condor. When we started this, when we moved, we were over on Truth Social. When we moved it over to X, we started basically around the world tour. And we started in South America and Central America. And then we moved to the Caribbean. And then we moved to Europe. And then we moved to Africa.

1:53:54 And then we moved to Asia. We spent probably a week and a half on Vietnam. Half of that material came from Doug Valentine's book about the Phoenix program. I'm a very big fan of his material, not his political outlook. But he is an excellent researcher. There's probably not anyone that spent more time in that area talking to more of the actual CIA operators that did what they did there.

1:54:24 And I just did a piece today, a very long thread, about the Operation Phoenix program used in Central America between Honduras, El Salvador, and Costa Rica against Nicaragua. I mean, they implemented it to a T. As a matter of fact, I've even made the analogy that

1:54:52 9-11 brought the Phoenix program here. That's what FEMA is. FEMA with their territorial things and the sectors that they set up. And I did a post where I compared all of the things that the FEMA and the legislation after the Patriot Act, after 9-11, it set up the Phoenix program infrastructure inside the United States.

1:55:19 Yeah, Dr. Valentine also has said that, and I've said it too, I'm sure. But yeah, definitely. I just sort of take a more random approach, just sort of like, what am I interested in? And then I study it for way too long or whatever. But it's cool that you guys did it sort of step-by-step around the globe.

1:55:38 world tour version and that you already have studied the physics program and operation condor because i think if you study like yeah there's all three in conjunction then you understand like how a counter-insurgency dirty world works which yeah it's a very a mild version is in the us right now and one of my early articles is like america's global military empire where they

1:56:01 North America is also one of these sectors, like North Cobb. If people ever rise up, of course they will start torturing and killing and using all this NSA data that they've been collecting out of us. I'm sure everybody's got a list of people to round up to send to these prison camps and stuff. I think the January 6th people would tell you that the torture's already here, the roundup is already here. Oh yeah, of course.

1:56:31 Well, I'm black, so I can tell you, yeah, of course, he's tortured people. That's why they sent police to trade torturers in Latin America. Yes, exactly. Colonel, I also think, you know, we saw, to some extent, a preview of that with the military intelligence groups in the late 1960s, where, you know, you had General Yarborough in Colombia doing the Macarena already there in 1961. And then, you know, as some

1:57:01 Researchers have argued he was involved in Memphis, Tennessee in 1968. Yeah. Unfortunately, we have a lot of that overlap there, as you point out. Okay. Cousinette, did you have anything else you wanted to add? No. I couldn't get the mic to work.

1:57:37 No, but I did want to, again, thank Hugo for coming. For those of you who'd like more information, Hugo has a lot of his work linked on his profile. So if you would like to learn more about the... It's all free at antiimperialistu.blondstock.com or whatever. I don't charge anything or ask for anybody. It's all just free. It is a wealth of information. And certainly for...

1:58:06 You know, those of you who want more information on Ukraine and Russia, because there was a big hole in my education. And, of course, we're limited to what we're able to find. And X still won't let you post a lot of the Russian newspapers, keeping that in mind. But Hugo's, is it a channel, blog?

1:58:33 is truly a wealth of information for anybody looking to find out more. And again, thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate it. And you can also find more reader-friendly versions of my work at Libya360, which also does a lot of international news from sort of a left wing, but yeah, definitely not averse to looking at things from the conspiracy, not averse to looking at Gladio B and stuff like that, right by my friend, Alexandra Valiente.

1:59:01 And my new one will be coming soon, hopefully. I'm waiting for my editor to get it out. Definitely, you guys go follow him on X. A wealth of information, obviously. Interested in all of the same stuff that we're interested in. And definitely need to support people that are doing the yeoman's work as far as researching and digging out the truth for all of us. Bridget, go ahead.

1:59:31 It's interesting that we're on the opposite sides of the ideological spectrum, but because we've done the same research, we agree on many elements of our analysis of the world situation. But Hugo, that's the same thing that I felt about Doug Valentine. We definitely don't have to agree on everything, but the one thing that you cannot do is you can't change history. History is history, and we need to all understand it.

1:59:58 and process it as actual information. We'll draw different conclusions based on the history potentially, but we shouldn't be arguing and allowing these assholes to separate us and stop us from talking about what our shared history is because that's how they manipulate us. Yes, and just keep, we'll all keep researching and it is fascinating.

2:00:27 The problem is that people don't know what they don't know. So it's like, oh, I'm studying this, and they think it's just some boring nonsense. They don't want to hear about it or whatever. It's just so fascinatingly shocking, the history of the past 80 years. Yeah, their worst fear is you and I talking. Yeah.

2:00:49 Go ahead. Well, it was fun. Thanks for having me. And Cousin Ed is the one who got me to come out of the chair. Cousin Ed is our PR person. She's an amazing, she reaches out to people that she knows our audience will embrace as far as their research and their knowledge and that adds to the diversity.

2:01:13 of the material that we bring, and we love her. I'm not friends with Doug Valentine, but he pissed me off, too, with his, like, he supports Russian Gay, and he was, like, even saying, like, oh, we should stop selling jam cakes. We're never going to solve it. It's like, are you joking? Yeah, I, again, I learned early on when I was a major in doing just reading. I've always read nonfiction.

2:01:40 That when I was assigned to you a central command, I got some very wise advice from a two star that said, you have to read both sides of every conflict, because if you don't, you'll never know the truth. Absolutely. And that's what I do with Ukraine. Yes, yes, exactly. And if you don't read everything that people write about these situations, then you are not.

2:02:09 doing the truth justice, because you can research their references and figure out whether they're even just the tone. One of the things he pointed out to me, which I found fascinating, when you read supposed historical events, when people and this is kind of the thing that I found Doug Valentine guilty of.

2:02:35 And it clearly shows after you've read, you know, several hundred books. When people use, there's certain parts of a historical research project called a book that you are going to, and I do it as well when I present my information, you're going to draw conclusions. Like we talk about patterns.

2:03:02 based on the research material that you've gathered up. So you're going to have some takeaways at the end. Those takeaways are your opinions of the material. When you're presenting the material in the middle of your book, what you should never do is use emotionally triggered words in describing events.

2:03:25 And one of the things that he pointed out to me, because, of course, CENTCOM was our AOR that can that included most of everything except for Israel in the Middle East and the Horn of Africa. And so obviously we were dealing with a lot of the Palestinian type issues in the Middle East and Syria and Saudi Arabia and blah, blah, blah. Well, anytime that you read a Palestinian.

2:03:55 a book about Palestine, there were emotionally charged words, not just facts. And you could tell that the reader was being manipulated based on the choice of words. And as a discipline researcher and a discipline reader of nonfiction, you have to pay attention to the material that you're reading.

2:04:23 to not allow yourself to be taken by those words. And Doug Valentine's is a very good example of that because he adamantly hates Trump and somehow managed in a book about the Southeast Asia to read him constantly into the narrative. And when you do that, you're not doing yourself any favors. Yeah, I would agree that his hatred of Trump is sort of...

2:04:54 screwed up his view of the world, basically. There's no proof that there's any intelligence involvement in Russiagate. How can you say that? Every aspect of it comes from an intelligence agency. Again, he's an excellent researcher, and it just distracts from the wonderful information. I think you have to do agitprop and take a side, too. People need to be fired up.

2:05:24 It's probably artists are bent, you have to be, you're always somewhat of a propagandist and every history is never totally objective. But I think you should try to think objectively, but maybe also be able to write subjectively sometimes because you're battling evil and people are apathetic. Yeah, and that's what we specifically do on our space here and any of the shows that I'm on. We are very careful.

2:05:50 to separate here's the actual information and here's my speculation as to what it means. Yeah, that's a good practice. Yeah. So anyway, and I try to the best of my ability to stay away from speculation in general because our job is to give information to people and allow them to form their own conclusions. Yeah.

2:06:17 So having said that, do you have any closing thoughts for us, Hugo? Again, everybody go follow him, support his work. And we're going to let you close it out, Hugo. And thank you again for being here. We really, really appreciate it.

2:06:34 Keep up the research on Ukraine. Just the only real thing that America could do is to cut Ukraine off. But I think under the Trump peace plan, they're actually going to end up saying like, oh, we want to make peace. So we're going to send Ukraine a bunch of weapons so that they can improve the negotiating position. And it's a dangerous situation. And Trump supporters are trying to restrain.

2:06:58 these Ukrainians that actually want nuclear war. That's one thing about Stetsco. He actually wanted a nuclear war during the Cold War. And today, these Ukrainians are constantly saying, you know, please just bluff me. Let us do whatever we want. Let us get a nuke. Let us have a Tomahawk cruise missile so we can fire like a thousand miles into Russia. And Russia, it never really makes sense to bluff the world, but you can only push something so far until it does happen and they should probably relax.

2:07:27 That's all I have to say. Okay. And thank you again. You're welcome back here anytime. If you come across anything and you want to share, just reach out to Cousin It or myself, and we'd love to have you back on. Obviously, a lot of our research overlaps with each other, and we would like to have you on, you know, every, like, maybe every couple months or something like that, just so you can catch us up on what your latest project is. I might show up again. It's sometimes hard, but...

2:07:56 involved in research and work and stuff but i think i could definitely try to make it again yeah we would love you thank you so much for being here and thanks everybody for being here yeah um we will be back on monday and um again thanks everyone for being here thanks

Entities here

Soviet Union47 Ukraine25 Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists23 World War II19 United States19 Operation Gladio16 West Germany15 Alexander Duncan12 Stepan Bandera11 Poland10 Fidel Castro9 NATO8 World Anti-Communist League8 Doug Valentine7 Al Qaeda7 CIA6 Azov Battalion6 China5 Odessa5 Galicia5 Phoenix Program5 Otto Skorzeny5 Moldova5 Chiang Kai-shek5 Transnistria4 Joseph Stalin4 Wesley Clark4 Canada4 Daria Dugina4 Inter-Services Intelligence4 United Kingdom4 Volhynia3 Slava Shukhevych3 Viktor Yanukovych3 Waffen-SS Galician Division3 Romania3 Ukraine Maidan Revolution3 Australia3 Contras3 Roman Shukhevych3

Claims made here

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Poland guest_asserted ▶ 7:56

“was created. And it basically, after the failure to create a state, they created this organization called the UVO, the Ukrainian Military Organization, which was a terrorist group that spied for Germa…”

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists spied_on West Germany guest_asserted ▶ 7:56

Andriy Melnyk headed Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 8:55

“to fight for like an independent fascist ukraine and eventually the younger generation under steven bandera split from the older generation that had like fought in world war one and they formed the ou…”

Soviet Union assassinated Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 8:55

Stepan Bandera headed Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 9:23

“Told Melnyk to resign and let him lead it. Melnyk refused. And so it was split, basically. So the OUNM was also fighting the OUNB. They were both competing for German support. And basically when Germa…”

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Lithuania guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

“were quick to join their movement, and basically they carried out a genocide against Jews, against Poles, against Russians, and were, like, incorporated into the German military intelligence. They als…”

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Soviet Union guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists member_of West Germany guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Poland guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Galicia guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists member_of Inter-Services Intelligence guest_asserted ▶ 9:52

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Volhynia guest_asserted ▶ 10:47

“the OUNB formed this organization called the UPA, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. And so a lot of times the Soviets and other people would refer to them as the OUNUPA, or OUNUPA, as the Ukrainians say i…”

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists founded Azov Battalion guest_asserted ▶ 10:47

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Poland guest_asserted ▶ 10:47

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Galicia guest_asserted ▶ 10:47

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Soviet Union guest_asserted ▶ 12:44

“Even though, like, the Soviets gained it in 1939 as part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement, but they still had their underground members that were, like, ready to, you know, they were supporters. An…”

CIA funded Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 13:14

“After Germany was kicked out of Ukraine, they were still supporting the EPA to fight against the Soviets. And they were flying in arms and stuff. And then after Germany was defeated, the British just …”

Inter-Services Intelligence funded Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 13:14

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Soviet Union guest_asserted ▶ 13:14

Anti-Bolshevik League of Nations member_of World Anti-Communist League guest_asserted ▶ 20:25

“tens of thousands of these OUMN members moved to Canada, Australia, and the U.S. during the Cold War, where they became sort of like this Ukrainian think tank. And they were also alive with all the ot…”

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists member_of World Anti-Communist League guest_asserted ▶ 20:25

Nikolai Lebed headed Prolog Research Corporation guest_asserted ▶ 21:19

“which was a splinter group off the OUNB led by Nikola Bed, who had headed the OUNB intelligence wing, the SB. And the modern Ukrainian intelligence is called SBU. So it's actually after the OUNB's int…”

Nikolai Lebed headed Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists guest_asserted ▶ 21:19

Viktor Yushchenko appointed Stepan Bandera guest_asserted ▶ 22:18

“claiming the election was stolen. And so eventually their candidate was put in power. But then he became the pro-American candidate. I can't believe I'm blanking on this guy's name. Anyways, he declar…”

John Singlaub headed World Anti-Communist League guest_asserted ▶ 28:31

“So, yeah, I got into it through Iran-Contra. And the Reagan era was sort of the golden era of the World Anti-Communist League. And the World Anti-Communist League was involved in supplying arms to the…”

World Anti-Communist League supplied_arms_to Contras guest_asserted ▶ 28:31

Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists carried_out_attack Lviv guest_asserted ▶ 29:20

“Stephen Bandera is, like, number two, man. And when the Nazis invaded in western Ukraine, the city of Lvov, which is today called, like, they call themselves Bandera-style, like, the Bandera city, he …”

West Germany carried_out_attack Lviv guest_asserted ▶ 29:20

Roman Shukhevych headed Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists host_asserted ▶ 31:14

“the Barbara Thatcher of OUN. They called her the Iron Lady. And something that I apparently found out was that at the war's end, Stetsco was actually fired upon by an American aircraft and was castrat…”

Slava Shukhevych founded Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists host_asserted ▶ 32:13

“His wife, Slava Sesko, immediately moved to Ukraine. She founded this organization called KUN, the Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists, to promote Bandera's legacy. She worked with, like, immediately r…”

Ivan Katchanovsky exposed Maidan 2014 host_asserted ▶ 35:33

“who also exposed the fact that the Maidan massacre was like a false flag carried out by these fascist paramilitaries that were shooting the police and the protesters to discredit the Yanukovych govern…”

Right Sector carried_out_attack Maidan 2014 documented ▶ 35:59

“Yeah, there was actually a court case in Ukraine that proved that right sector had rented the entire hotel that was firing into the crowd. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. They're firing from the h…”

Stefan Romanuk headed Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists host_asserted ▶ 37:42

“the head of the OUNB was this guy Stefan Romanu who was like the head of the worldwide OUNB he was um Stefan Romanu he you know he went to the way that they work you see this would have died out but t…”

Turkish Intelligence funded Al Qaeda host_asserted ▶ 41:13

“So, yeah, well, obviously, the Turkish role at this point is just, like, you know, they were having truck convoys of ISIS being oiled in Turkey during, like, the Syria war and stuff like that. It's li…”

Wesley Clark headed Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 45:27

“And I find it interesting, just so that everybody can see the correlation here. The whole Bosnia-Yugoslavia quote-unquote war was waged during the time that Wesley Clark was the NATO general. And for …”

Stefano Delle Chiaie worked_with Otto Skorzeny host_asserted ▶ 50:39

“covert operations and missions. So, like, you learn all these things that most people don't even know ever happened. Like, people like Ted Shackley at the CIA or Stefano Della Chiai, this Italian guy …”

Alexander Duncan member_of Communist Party of China host_asserted ▶ 1:10:23

“In the press, they call him Putin's brain. He's not really that important in Russia, but he's way more important than he should be. He co-wrote the Communist Party of Russia's platform, and he's signe…”

Julius Evola influenced Alexander Duncan host_asserted ▶ 1:12:15

“all obsessed with, let's create a worship of the sun cult and a warrior caste and stuff like that, and a secret brotherhood that will dominate the world. That's like Julius Evola, one of the major inf…”

Oleksandr Lytvynenko member_of Alexander Duncan host_asserted ▶ 1:12:44

“And the thing about Dugan that just pisses me off is that he, like if he was just pro-Russian, not pro-Russian, I would have fed this. But Dugan was in, his followers were in Ukraine and they were wor…”

Ukrainian Intelligence assassinated Daria Dugina host_asserted ▶ 1:13:07

“He is a former Duganist. And they were also working in, like, Turkey. They were working with these, like, Al-Qaeda groups. So, basically, they were working with all the people that are, like, fighting…”

Joseph Stalin supported Ukraine host_asserted ▶ 1:21:54

“We will import everything from the West instead of Russia, basically. That's a Ukrainian nationalist thing. And that's actually why Stalin, originally the Bolsheviks, supported the Ukrainian language …”

Soviet Army member_of Transnistria host_asserted ▶ 1:23:47

“There was basically this civil war in the early 90s in eastern Moldova. It's very confusing. It was in Transnistria. So basically, the Soviet army was left over there. And they were like the Moldovan,…”

NATO funded Moldova host_asserted ▶ 1:24:42

“because they're cut off from it by Ukraine. And every year or so, there's this panic among the pro-Russian crowd that Ukraine is about to invade Transnistria. And NATO is always encouraging Moldova to…”

Ukraine carried_out_attack Odessa Massacre host_asserted ▶ 1:27:03

“of, like, dad-violent people, like, into this building and then, like, lit it on fire. And then the Ukrainians were, like, joking. The Ukrainian politicians were all joking. It's like, this is a wonde…”

Mikhail Saakashvili appointed Odessa host_asserted ▶ 1:28:00

“They made this Georgian president who had started this war with Russia into the governor of Odessa. Mikhail Saakashvili. So it's like a bizarre... And for Russia, this is like the major port of Ukrain…”

Brothman family trafficked Prohibition host_asserted ▶ 1:34:26

“So you're absolutely right. I mean, that was so when they implemented prohibition in the United States, they didn't do it in Canada. And so that's how Stegrams and Crown and all those guys in Canada g…”

Stansfield Turner exposed Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:47:27

“he was on Italian TV, and they asked him about Gladio, and he immediately said, like, fuck you, and stormed out of the interview. Oh, now, we just covered Stanfield Turner and Jimmy Carter and the Hal…”

J.P. McSherry authored Predatory States documented ▶ 1:52:58

“And it's like I found that like between those three, you get like a great view of how these operations and deep state things work. So, Hugo. There's this book called Predatory States by J.P. McSherry.…”

Doug Valentine authored The Phoenix Program documented ▶ 1:52:58

Federal Emergency Management Agency front_for Phoenix Program host_asserted ▶ 1:54:52

“9-11 brought the Phoenix program here. That's what FEMA is. FEMA with their territorial things and the sectors that they set up. And I did a post where I compared all of the things that the FEMA and t…”

General Yarborough carried_out_attack Colombia host_asserted ▶ 1:56:31

“Well, I'm black, so I can tell you, yeah, of course, he's tortured people. That's why they sent police to trade torturers in Latin America. Yes, exactly. Colonel, I also think, you know, we saw, to so…”

General Yarborough involved_in Athens book_quoted ▶ 1:57:01

“Researchers have argued he was involved in Memphis, Tennessee in 1968. Yeah. Unfortunately, we have a lot of that overlap there, as you point out. Okay. Cousinette, did you have anything else you want…”

Libya360 covered_up Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:58:33

“is truly a wealth of information for anybody looking to find out more. And again, thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate it. And you can also find more reader-friendly versions of my …”

Stepan Bandera targeted_for_regime_change Soviet Union host_asserted ▶ 2:06:58

“these Ukrainians that actually want nuclear war. That's one thing about Stetsco. He actually wanted a nuclear war during the Cold War. And today, these Ukrainians are constantly saying, you know, plea…”