Operation Gladio - Vietnam Part 7

1:46:22

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Transcript

0:00 Hello, hello, hello. Hello. How are you? And boy, have I a surprise. What? Liza's off work. Or Cousin It. Sorry. Oh. Cousin It's off work. She's going to be here. Okay. Or she's planning on it, at least. Okay. You know how that goes. Yay! Cool. All right. So, we are going to start where we left off yesterday. And... Oh, one click.

0:34 Everybody, please repost the space so that we get as many people in here as we can so that we can get the word out. Thank you. Absolutely. And if you put it down in the comments area, then Bridget can repost your post and it kind of just magnifies it. There she is. Let's see if we can bring her up. All right.

1:06 So we're going to talk today about a thing that was called PICs, which are pacification. Let's see, pacification, intelligence. Okay. The bitch is back. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So.

1:36 There's a couple of terminology things. One is called PICs with two Cs, which was Province Intelligence Coordination Committees. And then they also had a thing that was called a PIC, which were Pacification Intensive Capital. So it's going to get a little dicey here with the acronyms, but basically just understand.

2:05 Both of them to be horrible ways of getting information out of civilian people. And what's funny is you go on the Internet and try to see if you search on Vietnamese PICs, you know, and then give it some dates.

2:35 It comes back with images because now, of course, we call them pics as opposed to pictures. So I'm like, yeah, I don't want pictures of this. Thank you very much. That was a little much. So where to start? Holy crap. It seems like each one of these days gets a little more gruesome. This one's not going to be any different. But again, I think it's important that we understand.

3:08 what has been going on in our name. And let me say something else. I don't know how many of you guys have had an opportunity to listen to the, excuse me, the interview that Tucker just released. It's a very good interview, by the way. But I did want to.

3:35 point something out because the guy spent a little bit of time talking about Jonestown. And what I found most interesting about that is, and he definitely did his homework. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Because he does not understand the history of what our CIA has done and the depths of depravity.

4:04 these experiments, he comes across with a benign agenda that doesn't quite capture the evilness. So what we found when we dug into Jonestown, because we already know about MKUltra and we already know about what the CIA has done all over the world, the minute

4:35 You find out that Jim Jones, which he didn't cover, worked for the CIA and was doing this terrorism-type activity during the coup in Brazil for the CIA. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt of being altruistic but completely misguided, right? At that point, that...

5:05 He was doing bad, but believed that he was doing good. You lose that immediately when you affiliate with the CIA. Because at that point, once you identify someone as a CIA asset or agent, they are now doing everything that they've done from that point forward as a part of a CIA operation, as far as I'm concerned.

5:32 you completely lose any benefit of the doubt. And that also came across with his take. Everything he says, again, is 100% accurate with his take on Winston Churchill. But if you don't take Winston Churchill back and understand his benefactors were the Fabian Society and his

6:03 affiliation with the stay-behind units during the Boer Wars and all of that stuff, and then understand that he set up the Jedbergs and all of those types of things, it completely changes the complexion of everything they do after that point. And that's what I would say about Jim Jones. Jim Jones was in the CIA long before and during.

6:30 The setting up of they probably found him right about the time he was setting up that church, because he says that what Jim Jones did by targeting blacks was a good thing. You know, like he was trying to give them a home. I don't think that's true at all, because you're judging someone's motivation. And that was their favorite things to experiment on blacks. That's why they targeted all the drugs initially to Harlem.

7:00 Um, so again, once you affiliate someone with the CIA and these experiments, they no longer get the benefit of the doubt on anything. Um, and that's why I think it's critically important, um, the research that we're doing because it changes the complexity of how people look at things. Um, so anyway, I just want to say that, um, cause I don't want any.

7:27 And it's the same thing with Mike Benz. Everything Mike Benz does is good and it's accurate. I just don't think he puts it in the context of the bigger picture. I don't have a fault with anything that he says or does. My frustration is just that it's not in that bigger scope where it's looking at.

7:57 The background and putting it in that context. So anyway. All right. So back to the Phoenix program. So and I'm going to kind of drive the whole motivation point of this home with what we find out is happening in the 1960s, which correlates to.

8:26 Basically, the same time frame of what Jim Jones was doing in the United States, just pointing out kind of the corollaries there, because they really like this whole torture kind of parapsychology experimentation on people.

8:50 So I want to focus today on a couple of people as far as their names go. I'm probably later on going to do a little bit deeper dive into some of them, but I kind of want to get through this so we have a context to finish Asia with, because understanding this program is pivotal to going to Malaysia and Indonesia and a couple of the other places that we're going to visit in Asia.

9:19 So we come across a guy by the name of Robert Thompson, who was from the UK and he was considered a counterinsurgency expert. He was hired by Roger Hilsman, H-I-L-S-M-A-N, in 1961, who was the director of the State Department's Office of Research and Intelligence. Now, what's interesting about that.

9:48 particular office is that's basically the pigeonhole in the State Department that is the CIA office. Okay, so if you had an office in the State Department that was 100% CIA and kind of their conduit into the rest of the State Department, that's this office. And also, this is the same office, just so that you guys remember, when we covered Alan Dulles being the CIA,

10:15 director and his brother, John Foster Dulles being the secretary of state. We also, if you guys remember, found his sister working there and she'd been in the state department for like 20 years. She was in charge of this office, state department, office of research and intelligence. It's critical to a lot of stories. And so the Roger Kilsman, who's the director of that,

10:51 hired Robert Thompson, the UK counterinsurgency guy, to advise the US and all of the police operations in South Vietnam. And you're going to also find later on that we used quite a few Australians in counterinsurgency too, which of course is part of the greater British Empire.

11:21 And what's interesting is, again, the correlation here is that Robert Thompson set up this exact operation in Malaysia. Because everything that he tells Thompson, the guy that's in the theater, and Hilsman back at the State Department.

11:47 was that he had a very successful interrogation, torture, whatever you want to call it, program that integrated military, civilian intelligence, and police agencies to attack the indigenous people that were fighting against their occupation. So on Thompson's advice, the National Police in 1962 initiated that program that we talked about earlier, Family.

12:17 census program. And that's where they go in and see if this sounds familiar, where they have everybody's fingerprints. They have everybody's political affiliation in a computer system. They have everybody's income, everybody's savings and any other information so that they can, and they also get basically like family trees. Oh, kind of like ancestry.com.

12:44 So that they can search whether or not people have legitimate reasons for traveling around because they begin setting up roadblocks and checkpoints. You know, show me your papers, please. This entire thing is being set up in South Vietnam. And let's see. It says, also, with all of this information, this allowed them.

13:15 to set up forms of blackmail when people were traveling to places that they didn't necessarily need to go. They would sometimes observe them to be able to get blackmail material on them in order to get them to basically turn state's evidence against their neighbors. So it says, while doing this, basically,

13:43 The CIA had learned the names of many people that through torture had been identified as Viet Cong members. So again, you don't know whether any of this is true because they're getting it out of torture. So then the CIA would go in and apprehend the people that their neighbors had ratted out.

14:14 supposedly the idea was to weaken the insurgency and get those people to come over to the south side or use them kind of as a double agent to send them back north. Thompson's method was successful, but only to a point because many of the Viet Cong cadre

14:39 had been former Viet Minh heroes, remember, because they were fighting to consolidate, unify their country against the Japanese and the French. It was counterproductive for the political action teams and counter-terrorists to hunt them down in their own village. So many of the Viet Cong were not terrorists at all. They were just men motivated by the fact that they wanted their country back.

15:09 They were seen as very honorable in their villages, and so they didn't want to arrest them in their villages and heighten the hate against the U.S. forces. Thompson's dragnet technique engendered other problems. Mistakes were made and innocent people were routinely tortured by crooked cops.

15:34 Other occasions, the Viet Cong agents deliberately led political action teams into arresting people hostile to the North because they lied. Recognizing these facts, Thomas suggested that the CIA organize a police special branch of professional interrogators who would not be confused and would be better able to win the hearts and minds of the locals. In 64, Thompson's suggestion was the

16:04 police special branch was formed from the Vietnamese Bureau of Investigations, and plans were made to build out these PICCs, P-I-C-C, throughout all of the Vietnam provinces. And if you haven't got it yet, all we keep doing is spending millions and millions of dollars of new iterations of torture cells. So if you have followed along...

16:32 Through all of these series, it's like everybody that comes new in theater has a new idea. And then that idea is going to put in all of the provinces. And so then they just spend more money going into all the provinces and building out the new torture cell or the new national police headquarters or the new this or that, whatever the latest thing is. This is all appropriated money from you and I's parents, right? That they're just throwing at this bullshit.

17:02 Over in Vietnam, millions after millions of dollars. And basically, it's being done to set up facilities to torture people that are civilian, not military. And that's very important. These are not militants. These are civilian people in villages living their life. The creation of the police special branch coincided with a new organization called Special Branch.

17:32 of the Vietnamese special forces. So they set up a counterpart basically to mirror what the special operations group, the SOG, had already set up. The birth of the police special branch coincided with another program, and that was that pacification intensive capital program that was also activated in 1964. And that was to basically focus on Saigon itself.

18:02 because they had several thousand people in Saigon in the police force. And there was basically seven provinces that were in the local jurisdiction of Saigon proper. And there wasn't a lot of coordination among them. So they wanted to come up with someone to kind of be the umbrella. And so you end up having the...

18:31 Family Census Programs, the Resource Control Bureau, the National Police, and the Public Safety, oxymoron advisor, kind of all working together, and they set up basically a new headquarters. By December 1964, they end up with 13,000 police people on the payroll.

18:58 7,000 cops were just manning checkpoints to check people's papers. They were making, on average, 6,000 arrests in a month. That doesn't mean that's all the people that were retained, but they arrest them and bring them in for questioning. And then most of them were released, but not all of them.

19:27 In provinces, the public safety advised policemen to establish curfews and regulate the movement of people. So they also were going to combine the police and paramilitary programs and teach the police to be able to interrogate people the same way. And we talked yesterday about Scotton forming all of the paramilitary.

19:54 forces in the area immediately around Saigon. And so basically they're setting up a cop structure that matches that same thing so they can work better together. Okay. And this is a quote from Scott. He said,

20:24 Where does it start? Develop improved combat skills. This is what they were intending to do. Develop improved combat skills, increase commitment to close combat for South Vietnamese. This is not Cywar against civilians or Viet Cong, except there it was. Going on with this quote, this is taking the most highly motivated people, saying they deserted the... Okay, so let me stop his quote for just a second.

20:53 They were setting up a program that took people out of the South Vietnamese Army and basically registered them as having deserted the Vietnamese Army or the police or whatever, and then come to work for the CIA, making like twice as much money with, of course, our tax dollars.

21:22 What that does, you remember the old saying that people don't look for dead people, so they fake people's deaths so they don't look? Well, as it turns out, that's the intent from our perspective of talking these people in to deserting their current assignments in the Army or in the...

21:51 police force is to get them as non-accountable. So when they do die, nobody's going to be looking for them because they're a deserter. So going back to his quote, this is taking the most highly motivated people saying they deserted, typing up a contract and using them in these units. Our problem was finding smart, smart Vietnamese and Cambodians who were willing to die. So basically they had to be smart enough to join the program, but dumb enough to do it.

22:20 Because they're going to die. The first districts gotten entered to search for recruits for this new program was a village that was between Saigon and the major military airport so that it was close enough that they could travel to the training sites. And they would teach people basically how to shoot, how to blow things up. They would issue them a rucksack, a machine gun.

22:51 and take them off to wherever they were going to do their duty. So successful was the Motivational Indoctrination Program that they decided to take it again throughout the entire province. In early 1965, Scotton had asked to introduce this program to all of the Special Operations Group regional camps in support of Project Delta.

23:15 which was the successor to the program called Leaping Lena, which we talked about a few days ago. Recruits for the SOG project were profit-motivated people that they could convince to desert their former unit. And he would type up a contract, get them to sign it, and from that point on,

23:46 They were technically employed by the CIA on a quote unquote sensitive project. The most valuable quality possessed by these defectors, and some of them were actually criminals out of the jail, serving on a sensitive CIA project was they were expendable. So there was a project called Project 24, which employed Vietnamese.

24:17 officers and senior enlisted. Candidates for Project 24 were vetted, and if they were selected, they were taken out for dinner and drinks to a brothel. They were then photographed having sex with someone at that brothel, and then they used that as blackmail to get them to join these special reconnaissance teams. And then they held that blackmail over them to get them to do whatever it was they wanted to do.

24:44 The problem was their actual mission was going into places like Cambodia, which, by the way, was neutral. We weren't even supposed to be there. Lazing targets and having B-52 come bomb those places with these people still in them. So they were literally expendable. So it is even said by some witnesses that Doug Valentine talked to.

25:16 that if you had American soldiers that committed war crimes, instead of them being actually prosecuted, and I don't have any, it is not footnoted on here, so I don't have any way of verifying this, so I'm just going to say that up front, that they actually did that to American citizens as well. In June 1965, a guy by the name of Colonel Don Blackburn commanded the Special Operations Group.

25:46 His staff numbered around 12 and included commanders of the 1st and 5th Special Forces Group, which included Marines, Air Force, and Navy. The SOG headquarters in Saigon planned operations for 400-some people in operational units. However, in 1965, they were having significant problems with border surveillance.

26:15 were no longer effective after they had revolted and compensation alone wasn't going to cut it. So they wanted to do paramilitary police SOG and pacification programs that all kind of combined. And what Scotton said about it is, quote, for us, these programs were all part of the same thing. We did not think of.

26:44 in terms of little packages, unquote. The thing, of course, was a grand scheme to win the war via the use of these interrogation centers. Another guy by the name of John Patrick Muldoon, M-U-L-D-O-O-N, he was the first director of the PIC program in Vietnam. He was a very big, bulky guy.

27:12 and he had kind of a weird presence. People called it kind of like a mystery, mystique kind of thing. He was a Georgetown University dropout. He joined the agency, the CIA, in 1958. Both of his sisters were already working in the CIA at the time. He was in Germany, and then he was also in Korea in the 1960s.

27:42 early 60s, where it says he set up interrogation centers in Seoul, South Korea for the CIA, working with the KCIA that was just outside of Seoul. And then he was moved over to Vietnam. And he basically wanted to set up his prototype.

28:11 interrogation center that he had set up in Korea over in Vietnam for them to use it there. The CIA then sent a top psychologist, John Winn, W-I-N-N-E, to Seoul to select the particular people that were going to work in the Korean interrogation center. And this, the author goes through a whole bunch of what they used.

28:41 had these extensive questionnaires and they picked the interrogators based on answers to these questionnaires on people that basically were easily controllable and basically didn't have a conscience. That's my takeaway. Also, this Marx guy writes, quote, the CIA found the assessment process.

29:12 most useful for showing how to train the anti-terrorist section, which is these people that they're interviewing. According to the results, these men have shown to have very dependent psychologies and a need for strong direction, unquote. So that's what they're looking for in the CIA assets that they get to run these interrogation programs. And they identify them through the use of a personality assessment system.

29:42 So they love experimenting on people. So following Muldoon's tour in Korea in November of 1964, they moved him to Vietnam to basically do the exact same thing. Yay, another interrogation center. It says the CIA had different requirements because they had basically

30:15 already pacified Korea, Vietnam was still in a transitional period, and they couldn't quite get it as pacified, if you will, as South Korea. And Muldoon explained, quote, the South Vietnamese wanted information they could turn around and use in their battle against the Viet Cong. They just wanted to know what was going on in the South. So the South only wanted to police its own self.

30:44 wasn't really focused on the North. Um, but the CIA was very focused on the North. Um, so they didn't want to integrate with the national police and those other, um, people because they had different priorities for intelligence. Um, and it said we had standard requirements. Um, and, um, in 1964, there was a national interrogation center that was set up.

31:17 near one of the Navy ports. And they had, it was basically a joint operation because they had Air Force people in there as well. And Muldoon estimated that there were several hundred prisoners in this interrogation center with only four interrogators. Muldoon would become a fifth interrogator. Three were Air Force enlisted people serving under an Army captain.

31:44 Muldoon's boss, the CIA chief, Ian Sammy Sammers, S-A-M-M-E-R-S, was working as the station's senior liaison officer. And a guy by the name of Sam Hopper, H-O-P-P-E-R, was in charge of the construction of not only the main central interrogation center, but again, they're going to go try to build these things in all of the provinces.

32:13 And so there's a couple other guys, I just want to say their name, Tony Bartolomucci, B-A-R-T-O-L-O-M-U-C-C-I, and a guy by the name of Jack Stent, S-T-E-N-T, and Paul Hodges. All of those guys are involved in the build-out of these interrogation centers in Vietnam.

32:44 Um, and basically there's a lot of, um, he provides a lot more detail than we need to for our purposes on the problems and building these things out and how they, some places the chiefs didn't want them and they had to buy the chief and, um, he wanted money under the table and all this other crap. Um, because they're finding out that the, at the same time.

33:15 that if they push back a little bit on the Americans, they get more money. And so there's that dynamic going on too. So one of their ideas as they're building these things out was Tucker, the guy we were just talking about, wanted to turn all of the PICs into whorehouses, install two-way mirrors, and then use the women.

33:44 As the interrogators. While they're having sex. That was actually discussed. Sounds like something. That they decided later on. To do with Jeffrey Epstein. So. Let's go on. So the forerunner. To the province. Interrogation center program. Was called the province. Intelligence coordination committee program. And.

34:19 It basically, it was kind of a combination of what we had talked about before with the whole mapping of families and stuff like that. But they end up building, these things become basically what we would have envisioned what they talked about in Abu Ghraib.

34:50 In Iraq, where they became prisons and more a prison than an interrogation center. And they had tons and tons of, what's it called? The isolation. Shoot, my mind's blank. I'll get to it. But they don't let.

35:19 Anybody talk to anybody while they're in there. Sometimes they could have been in there for a year or two. And people were freaking out because they didn't let them have any outside time. They basically kept them in this little teeny hole. It didn't have a toilet in it. It just had a hole in the floor. And so they made these people's lives completely miserable. And again, many of these people could have been in there because they tortured.

35:46 a family member or a neighbor, and they ratted them out just to save their own lives. So we have no idea who was in there for real and who was in there under a pretense that didn't even actually exist. So they also now, around the 1966 timeframe, begin building this shit in Thailand.

36:13 there's this huge interrogation center that they set up in Udorn at the base where the military operations was going on and the home base of Air America that was flying all the missions into Laos and then bringing the drugs back. So we took weapons up to Laos and brought drugs back from Laos. And that's basically what Air America was doing there. So next.

36:48 solitary confinement. There you go. I was just trying to find it in my notes. All of these were set up depending on the province side from 20 to 60 solitary confinement cells and literally like the size of a small walk-in closet. And they had no beds in them. They slept on the concrete.

37:16 They would interrogate them daily for multiple hours a day. And there's one part. And of course, anybody that Doug talked to, whether it was a military person or a CIA person, they all say they didn't participate in the actual torture, but they can tell you exactly how they were tortured, which leads you to kind of, you know, question whether or not they're being legitimate.

37:45 But somebody tortured these people because there's a lot of stories in Vietnam of people that this was done to that you can read. I've read several books about some of the things that they say were done to them in these interrogation units. Okay. And it talks about the fact that they were all staffed with medical.

38:15 staff more from a precautionary standpoint because when people were brought in they could have you know like malaria or something like that they didn't really do it so much as um you know because a lot of these people end up dead anyway they didn't do it as a way to help them um and then it talks a little bit more about how they were building these things out in the field but i wanted to get to

38:45 My notes about basically. Oh, and they had this one. This this is really a weird one. Part of the special forces branch. Oh, and I did want to mention this to the military oftentimes refused to turn prisoners over to the CIA once they found out what they were doing to them. It's not that the military wasn't interrogated.

39:15 interrogating them because they were for actionable intel in the military operations. But in some cases, several of the military commanders had found out what the CIA was doing to them long-term and not using them just for actionable intel and turning them loose. And then over time, they started refusing to even give them to them, which created a whole other problem for the CIA.

39:47 there's a guy they don't give his whole name they just give his name as gene who had he was a former professional football player from green bay packers um who was over there basically um part of the training staff for um teaching people uh how to torture these people um i don't know where he learned that um um it doesn't say whether he was like in

40:15 World War II or part of Korea or whatever. But he just shows up one day and starts helping with this as a CIA contractor. And, oh, okay. So here it is. Muldoon is talking and these are quotes from him. You can't have an American there all the time watching these things because these things included rape, gang rape.

40:48 rape with snakes. I don't even know how that happens. Rape followed by murder, electrical shock, which they referred to as the Bell Telephone Hour. And if you guys remember when we talked about Chile and Uruguay, where they would hook up the old TACP phones that had like a crank on the side of them that you got them to work. I think they have them in MASH, the sitcom.

41:17 And that crank on the side of them generates an electrical current. And so they would take leads, electrical leads, clips, and clip them to body parts and then crank that telephone. And they had one that is in air quotes, the water treatment. I have to believe that's like waterboarding. And something called the airplane in which prisoners arms are tied behind their back.

41:48 and a rope is looped over a hook in the ceiling, and then they suspend them from their arms. They were beat with rubber hoses, with whips. Sometimes they turned police dogs loose on them as a terror event. And the people that they hired to do this was put through a six-month course.

42:21 And it says sometimes they had entire classes that were sent to a single location to increase the camaraderie of them working together, which I don't know. I just think this this is awful. So and this is the guy, the military side of this under initially a guy by the name of Major General.

42:57 excuse me, Joseph McChristian, MC, and then the word Christian, who arrived in Saigon in 1965, basically recognized what was going on and how this type of operation could kind of basically backfire on them. And he's the one that increasingly refused

43:30 permission for the CIA to have access to any of the military prisoners that they got. Since I'm very critical of the military, I do want to applaud them when they do the right thing. And I did not find any in my research on

43:56 Now, there's military that end up working for the CIA like General Lansdell, and they're involved in all of this crap. But the military proper, where I don't think the ones that were not infiltrated by the CIA are pretending to be military when they were actually CIA, I don't see any documentation of this gross stuff being done by the military that was over there. Not that I'm saying they didn't do it. I just don't see any in these programs here.

44:26 as I've done the research. Because eventually some of that stuff does happen, but not under this guy's command. Okay, moving on. So I did find it interesting that all of this information that they're gathering, these audits that they're doing, these surveys, all of this crap, they actually had a computer over there that they were using.

44:56 And that goes to the point where we were talking before about how there's technology that's available that we don't know about for 20 or 25 years because they were feeding all of this information into a computer to keep track of everybody. So then it says the final stage of the intelligence cycle was to terminate agents. And basically they had three ways of doing that.

45:24 First was to terminate by paying the agent off, swearing him to secrecy and saying, see you later. The second termination was with prejudice, which meant ordering an agent out of an area and placing him or her on a blacklist saying that you can never work for the U.S. again. The third one was termination with extreme prejudice, which basically meant you weren't going to live.

45:54 From what I can tell, that was kind of in, not that that should ever happen, but that was in situations where they had been caught, you know, basically stealing shit or being a double agent or whatever. It's still all wrong. So I'm going to read you a couple of quotes here. One of them.

46:25 And this is all about the pacification program. One of them was from General Westmoreland. The corporate warrior, quote, pacification was the ultimate goal of both the Americans and the South Vietnamese government, a complex task involving military, psychological, political, and economic factors. Its aim was to achieve an economically and politically viable society.

46:53 in which the people could live without constant fear of death or other physical harm, unquote. And they did that by constant fear of death and constant fear of physical harm. General Westmoreland is a piece of shit. Okay, number two. This was from George Orwell. Quote, defenseless villages were bombarded from the air, the inhabitants driven into the countryside, the cattle machine gunned down, the huts set afire with incendiary bullets.

47:26 This was called pacification. Next, this appeared in a Ramparts magazine in December 1965. Quote, what we're doing, what we're really doing in Vietnam is killing the cause of wars of liberation. It's a testing ground like Germany and Spain. It's an example to Central America and other guerrilla prone areas.

47:55 And keep in mind, because we've already done South America, South America was experiencing this same stuff going on in Vietnam at the same time. Then last one was a guy by the name of John Paul Vann in 1965. A quote, a popular political base for the government of South Vietnam does not now exist.

48:24 The existing government is oriented towards the exploitation of the rural and lower class urban populations. It is, in fact, a continuation of the French colonial system of government with upper class Vietnamese replacing the French. The dissatisfaction of the agrarian population is expressed largely through an alliance with the North, unquote. And that is true.

48:51 What you often see in all of this is the establishment or the replacement of the existing structure just under someone else's control. They're not changing anything. They're not making the lives of the people better. In the case of most of those countries, like when we looked at Uruguay and Chile and those, and especially in Nicaragua.

49:16 You had these corrupt elitists, not in Chile, but like in Cuba, you had this corrupt elitist government that was in bed with the United States and they had a real revolution. And if the CIA can't corrupt that real revolutionary, then they're going to try to overthrow that person as well. And if somehow.

49:44 the wrong person gets elected, like in Chile, they're going to kill them. And then they're going to install their corrupt elitist. And so in these cases where, like what we did with Spain, they had established a corrupt elitist system in the Philippines, Cuba, and Puerto Rico during the Spanish-American War. Basically, we defeated

50:10 Spain and demanded those territories as the reparations for the war. And we just went in and replaced Spain. We didn't give them their freedom. And that's basically what we're doing here. We weren't in Vietnam to free Vietnam. We were there to be able to run drugs out of there. And in order to do that, you have to establish control. And the only way to establish control is to create chaos. And that's what we're watching.

50:41 So in retaliation for selective terror attacks against Americans in South Vietnam, President Johnson ordered in 1965 a bombing campaign of the North. The raids continued until 1968, the idea being to deal with the communists through punishment of the bombing campaign. Although comparisons were not made.

51:10 In the American press, the North got a taste of what England was like during the Nazi terror bombings of World War II. And like the Brits, the North Vietnamese evacuated their children to the countryside but refused to give up. And then the North, in retaliation, kept trying to come south to eject the Yankees.

51:38 And LBJ also ordered the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, which, again, were supposed to be completely neutral. They weren't even in it. But we had already infiltrated them as well and set up these stupid interrogation places. SOG launched a special operations, launched a cross-border operation called Prairie Fire. Working on the problem in Laos was the CIA through its top secret program called.

52:07 Project 404, that's a very interesting operation. Project 404 sent agents into this countryside to locate targets for B-52. They would fly from Guam and bomb Laos and Cambodia, again, supposed to be neutral, and created basically hovels in both of those countries.

52:35 There wasn't a lot there to begin with, but they managed to break a lot of things. And the same was true with a lot of the different targets that were approved in the North in Vietnam. So the U.S.'s strategy was to demoralize the communists by blowing up their villages. Because of the devastation, the bombing wrought.

53:06 Half a million Vietnamese villagers fled and were set up in basically refugee camps at the end of 1965, while another half million was wandering around with no place to go. At the same time, a quarter of a million American soldiers were working, you know, fighting, and through all of the jungle.

53:34 and a small percentage of them were involved in this pacification program. The Pentagon thought it needed about half a million more men to quote-unquote get the job done. Reacting to the presence of another generation of foreign occupation troops, the commander, General Nguyen Thanh, T-H-A-N-H, called for a renewed insurgency.

54:03 And the head of the northern troops agreed. And basically, the war then intensifies. And they're now treating it as a revolution to eject the Americans.

54:29 This then corresponds to the CIA going, oh, my God, we need more prisoners so that we can torture more people and find out more information about what it is they're doing and where they're going to hit us next. So it's a vicious cycle. Let's see. And again, there's like people everywhere with no houses. It's just a it's a mess. And no one's able to go anywhere.

55:01 Because these checkpoints, they won't let people move around as they're destroying their houses. So they end up with less and less people to interrogate because they're not in their villages anymore. And now it's looking more like kind of herding up cattle.

55:27 and doing searches and all kinds of things. So making matters worse was the fact that province chiefs, eager to foster local initiatives on their own, made deals with the CIA officers who they had been on their payroll anyway. So at the direction of their paramilitary advisors, the province chiefs often pursued the Viet Cong.

55:55 with counterterrorism teams independent of the police in an uncoordinated way. So they put Viet Cong in their own province jails as opposed to turning them over to the CIA and then tried to barter with the CIA to release them to them for more money. That's what happens when you're doing something corrupt. This kind of shit happens. So meanwhile, they're getting calls from...

56:26 the Pentagon complaining about them trying to get the military involved in it. And then you've got these police and the pacification managers that work for the CIA, who's also screaming about the local people hanging on to these people. So it's just a, it's a clusterfuck. That's what it is. What was decided in the summer of 1965 was to provide the national police with a paramilitary field.

56:56 You know, so we're going to reorganize again because a continued nothing's working. So in comes a guy by the name of Colonel William Pappy Greaves, G-R-I-E-V-E-S. He becomes the senior advisor to the National Police Force and he stays in that job from 1965 until 1973.

57:26 And he basically was setting up this whole thing from what he considered scratch. He didn't think anybody had done a good job. He was the son of a U.S. Army officer who was stationed in the Philippines when this guy was born. He went to West Point. He did duty in World War II. You know, so he's kind of like the...

57:54 the best of the best from that perspective. But he had also, interestingly, worked with the CIA for the Greeks. When the CIA did their coup and they installed the five colonels, they helped that military junta overthrow of the Greek government, this guy was involved in that.

58:23 He obviously is one of those military officer that I say, whether he was or not, was basically a CIA officer posing as a military officer because he's been involved in a couple of different events. And by the way, if you try to look him up, you can find almost nothing on him. So that tells me anybody that's a colonel in the military has some type of.

58:51 um a paper history um for you to be able to find like newspaper clippings when they got promoted that type of thing yeah you can't find hardly anything on this guy so he's not real um greaves ended his career as the um let's see he was at the special warfare center at fort bragg um which is very interesting because we know that the cia uses fort bragg

59:21 to send all of these people. That was kind of like the advanced version of the schools of America to send these Gladio operators to. A lot of the Gladio people went to Fort Bragg for training. So it would make sense that they'd have somebody on their staff that was kind of honchoing that whole thing. Anyway, so just as he's quote unquote retiring from the military, he gets a phone call.

59:51 from the Agency of International Development, AID, which is the precursor to USAID. So they're going to take this guy who was on the payroll of the Army, working basically for the CIA, and they're going to make him work for the CIA under the guise of the Agency for International Development. See how easy that is?

1:00:13 And he's going to, of course, work in the public safety program because of the oxymoron names of all these things. The public safety program tortures people. So the guy that was running the public safety program of torture for the State Department was Byron Engel, E-N-G-E-L. And he basically is the guy that hires him to work in.

1:00:45 Vietnam, for AID, which eventually becomes USAID. And let's see. What else? Oh, and this is where we get this guy. Ted Serong. S-E-R-O-N-G. So they...

1:01:11 I've already told you that they had people that had been in Malaysia that worked doing this kind of garbage in Malaysia for the UK, the Robert Thompson guy. Well, he has a friend that's from Australia, Ted Sorong. And he also gets hired by AID, and he's going to work for the CIA in Vietnam. And you don't find a lot on him, but what you do find on him, if you go back and you look at...

1:01:41 What his job was, he was, I just posted it on my ex feed. He was involved in an organization that if you do the research on, looks a lot, awful lot like a domestic Gladio operation. It talks about it being paramilitary, far right, anti-communist, blah, blah, blah. It just has all the telltale signs. Oh, and it shows them dressed up with them skull mask on too, like the modern day versions of.

1:02:10 These, um, Antifa kind of, uh, Azal battalion guys. Um, yeah. So just saying it all kind of dovetails together. Um, so grief says when I got to Vietnam, I found myself responsible for the American side of this thing. And yet Sharong was in there. Um, but he was not, um, an advisor. He was actually the operator doing it.

1:02:41 He was being paid both by Australia and by the CIA. The problem that was that the CIA wanted to establish a field police that was under the CIA's control and not Vietnam's control. The CIA tried to do that by having Sorong basically go around the Vietnamese officers who managed the program so he could run it like a private army.

1:03:11 the way the agency ran their counterterrorism teams. Under Cherong and the CIA, the field police program was not for the benefit of the Vietnamese. The major principal, Greaves, felt obligated to run his program legitimately. But now Cherong and I were dealing with the same Vietnamese. And with him on the ground,

1:03:39 And trying to make it anti-Viet Cong and not about actually policing the South Vietnamese, everything got turned on its head. There was no accountability. The CIA was furnishing weapons that were not compatible with the ones that the South Vietnamese were using. And it says, Cherong would take a jeep, ship it by Air America to a training center.

1:04:09 and then ship it back on the next airplane. And he'd have a vehicle of his own, but it would be off the books. That sounds awful familiar. And they would use money generated by selling some of this equipment to buy liquor and other things on the local market. And, oh, by the way, a lot of people...

1:04:39 Who are over there as contractors for the CIA start black market marketing things like this. They will steal them from the base supply and black market them downtown. So it also says.

1:05:01 He was going with the director of AID's administrative assistant, and she would take things Sorong was interested in and let him see them before the USAID director, Charlie Mann, saw them. So he's sleeping with people in order to get access to information. There were all sorts of things going on, and it took me, grief says, it took me a couple of months to figure it all out.

1:05:31 And it made it hard to put the field police back on the police track, which was supposedly his job. So the first thing we did was to get rid of that whole apparatus, try to separate themselves from it. Bob Lowe, who was the head of the public safety in all of South Vietnam and Greaves' boss.

1:05:59 who was the chief of operations, wanted me basically, he's saying, Greaves, to stay out of it and let them try to handle it. But Chiron had basically ingratiated himself with all of this and made it almost impossible for anybody. I'm just trying to tell you guys all of this stuff because I want you to understand what a effed up mess all of this is. And how all of this is going on while...

1:06:28 The collective message that is touted in the newspapers every day through the CIA mockingbird media is we're winning. We're winning. But all of this crap is going on. So Greaves' refusal to bring the field police under the CIA's control.

1:06:52 was a significant event. In the eyes of Sorong and the crew, the field police were to be the outlet for the CIA. So when it became obvious that they were a part of the national police, the CIA developed a thing called provisional reconnaissance units. Oh, great, another unit. Operating separately, they hired them separately, and the field police, who could never develop across the board as long as this PRU,

1:07:22 Because they were like stealing from Peter, whatever, how that saying goes. And they basically spent years during the critical part of Vietnam at cross purposes between this PRU thing and the national police that had already been set up. All because the CIA didn't control them. That was the big thing.

1:07:51 It goes on and talks about them setting up a Marine police force as well so they could peruse the border. Because remember, they're setting up prisons and the basically paramilitary training camps on these islands. So it's vital that they control the water around them as well. Greaves plays the anti-Viet Cong role last because he was.

1:08:21 dealing with all of this internal fighting. And it says a priority that was reversed two years later under the Phoenix program. In the meantime, he was trying to reinforce the national police that was headquartered in Saigon and smooth out all of the ruffled feathers that this Saron guy.

1:08:48 was making by trying to set up these separate entities. So that kind of concludes that part of it. And this is all required background information. I know it seems long and laborious for us to get to the point, which is going to be tomorrow where.

1:09:16 the Michigan State University people that are going to set up Phoenix arrives in theater. So I've already told you all about how chaotic, how messed up all of this stuff is. And into this, we are going to bring CIA officers posing as Michigan State University professors in to...

1:09:44 Do one last push to try to win this thing using the Phoenix program. And all hell breaks loose. So that kind of gets us to a good breaking point for today. Who wants a mic? Throwing out the mic. How you doing, Jumpy Frog? Stellar, Stellar, how are you?

1:10:14 Doing good, getting blown away again by what she's saying and all of this stuff and all these ties and strings that go all over. And, you know, those that whole entity is file. And oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And then. Oh, yeah. The Phoenix program is totally, totally happening here. I mean, that project has is just and, you know, like.

1:10:42 The MK, the brainwashing, the propaganda, the propaganda war. I mean, holy cow. You know, it's oh, yeah. So, yeah, the propaganda stuff. Remember, you guys were talking about how they would throw the flyers out, you know, the propaganda and things like that. And literally, you know, maybe it's not the flyers right now, but it's all the social media, the trolls, everything. It's all total gaslighting.

1:11:10 you know, different method, but same exact effect. Yeah. Because you don't need flyers. Right. Yeah. That's what I was saying. Same message, different delivery system. Exactly. Yeah. So the, the social media definitely made it easier for them to try to push out their message. And then of course, that's where the whole censorship comes in. They then limit.

1:11:47 The ability to respond because they don't want you to have a psyops program all day. They're allowed to have a psyops program, but you're not allowed to respond and they ensure you can't respond by censoring you. Correct. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just totally mind blowing. And then you've got the media, television, you know, the indoctrination of the children so that they don't learn how to think and, you know, constructively, you know.

1:12:21 Oh, never mind. Yeah. All right. Bridget, who's next? Are they all along? All right. Hi. Yeah, Colonel. I wanted to make a comment on your mentioning this guy. Of course, the name just slipped my mind because I'm feeling 60-70. But he's a really important guy that you mentioned. State Department guy who worked in the State Department Intelligence Unit that you said.

1:12:54 was, you know, strongly influenced by CIA. What was his name again? Hold on, I'll have to go back to my notes. What was your point? Well, my point is that he's so important, I forgot his name. Because he wrote a book called, he is actually in a key, what I call troika within the State Department, that's just absolutely key in terms of State Department during the final months of the JFK administration.

1:13:25 important to look at. Namely, it was it was a crocodile, you know, what you would call it over its Democratic Harriman, April Harriman. Right. And April Harriman had adopted. Check this out. The first secretary of state forced us, you know, as we know, his life was ended. And there's variations on whether with a push or a jump.

1:13:52 when he died in 1949, extremely significant in terms of, will the president be able to control this new, you know, the services conflict that, you know, strongly influenced World War II. That was a hint. And, but, so he had, yes, Harriman adopted Forrestal's son. And he and Mike Forrestal were key, the key three in the Troika at State Department.

1:14:20 During that critical August 24th, 1963 memo that's highly looked at by historians, there's different interpretations about it, but it's pivotal. And the third one was the guy you mentioned, who, of course, I... His name's Roger Hilsman. Exactly. Hilsman is actually kind of unique, in my opinion, and here's why. I agree with you that...

1:14:46 The CIA is like, I mean, it grew from the State Department, first of all, the regard group within the State Department, and then it was the whole thing. But Hilsman is like, in a certain way, I call him representative of what I call the blind spot of liberalism, which I mean by he's actually half of them is still thinking that he is not CIA. And for us now, it sounds like impossible. But we got to remember, like what we know about CIA history now and the way that we look at it back then.

1:15:15 Because there were still some people in the three branches who actually thought they were still trying to do their job. And same with journalism, by the way. Now everybody knows who's boss. But it was an earlier time. And so Hilsman's book, To Build a Nation, I think it's called, in 1967, is one of the few books that I feel like is so worth reading. It is because you see this period sort of in the flux as it evolves.

1:15:45 This CIA gradual takeover of policy from all aspects of the State Department. And it's just so worth reading if you get a chance. Hilsman's book. I'll check the title on it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's interesting from the perspective that he was very much involved in the whole Chiang Kai-shek area of basically the operations around his moving around from China to Burma.

1:16:15 Right. So, yeah, he's got lots of ties to the background of what we've been researching. Absolutely. And I don't mean to suggest like he's some like, you know, re-virginated State Department, you know, Puritan by any means of the imagination. I'm just saying that he says some stuff that is like, wow.

1:16:43 I'm not even sure he realizes what he's saying, but it's like from the horse's mouth, you know, the book comes out in 67. So it's very, you know, it's very well. And just watch this. You look at his background. I just looked him up. So Bridget's going to love this. He's from Waco, Texas. And he spends his whole childhood in the Philippines because his dad was in the military, which tells you he was involved in the whole, you know,

1:17:13 are taking over of the Philippines and terrorizing the locals. Right. Yeah, just it's it's and he was there, obviously. His dad was part of MacArthur's staff during the Japanese invasion of the Philippines. So he. OK, yeah, I hadn't realized that that's definitely relevant. Yeah. And he was part of the OSS.

1:17:41 Oh, sure. Yeah. So it says he was with he was in Burma, which means he would have been there with Paul Helliwell because Paul Helliwell was the leading OSS guy hanging around with Chiang Kai-shek. So, yeah, right. They all kind of have. And then, of course, you know, supposedly he's just as any old civilian sitting at the State Department, which when you look at his history, you know, right away.

1:18:11 No, no, he wasn't. Oh, and in 1951, he's working at NATO. Oh, come on. You know? So, anyway. Yeah. Well, I think that possibly JFK perceived him as a little bit different, more along the lines of what you would call the old State Department guy that they... Probably, but JFK was never told about Operation Gladio either. So how else would he see him? True, but...

1:18:42 All I'm saying is it's important to remember that they didn't have access to everything that we do now, and that could affect how they pursue things. Exactly. I agree completely. Marie, go ahead. Marie, go ahead. Hi. Yet again, another great Gladio operations chat. Talking about the changes in the interrogation methods.

1:19:11 I found that fascinating, especially when you think one of the CIA operations, MKUltra, was started in 1973 or 1953, excuse me, and ended in 1973. And it was a two year difference almost to the day that the Vietnam War started in 1955 and ended in 1975. It's almost like they needed test subjects, huh?

1:19:40 Yeah, almost like that. Almost like that. Almost. Like if we were dabbling into that tinfoil hat, we might assume that the timing's a little suspicious there, especially with the methods. Yeah, with the methods of interrogation. And then if you look at the methods of interrogation that are listed that were changed through the Vietnam, these different interrogation methods, and then you decide to look at the narratives that they are discussing present day.

1:20:10 It's almost like that experimentation proved that they could maybe control parts of society like this. I think that's exactly why Vietnam is so relevant, because of what's going on right now. Yeah, it's like a subdued MKUltra that they used heinous methods to find it highly successful. And now that they know it's successful, they can introduce it, and it's like a slow-leeching poison.

1:20:41 I mean, that is what I gained from this specific space today. And I can't say that you're wrong about any of that. Yeah, another great space. So cool that IlluminaBot started poking at it too. That's so cool. Is that crazy? I don't think that's crazy. I think what's cool is how much you got tagged in the comments. Like there's hands down, you know, there's everything that we do. There's certain things that people are going to be known for.

1:21:14 And I've got this. That's because of everybody in this audience right now. Everyone take five seconds and pat yourself on the back because that was done because of the work that you guys do every single day of reposting SR-71. The stuff that I post, Deller, Trumpfrog, all of you guys have done an amazing job.

1:21:44 I see Jillian reposting stuff, Susan, all of you guys down there, the Texas, we the people, all of you guys, Africa, America. You guys do it every day. And that's the reason why I just I was blown away. I was blown away. I'll just say that you guys do such a great job. It's like where we go one, huh? Yeah, almost just like that.

1:22:14 Well, it's the truth, too. The truth speaks and people resonate with it. And it's it's going to continue to get seen. Sometimes I watch smaller accounts bust out really big things and they don't get the accreditation necessarily. So it was cool to see how many people said.

1:22:35 I learned this from, which I know isn't the end result, right? That's not like with the radiation stuff that I'm busting out. It's not the end result for someone to say, oh, it was Marie that did this. I just want it out. I want it to resonate so deeply with people. They start researching and looking. And I know from the past experiences with you, you've said it time and time again. I've been on a space where you're like, guys, jump in. There's so much information here. There's no way that three people are going to cover it all. Jump in. Give us your ideas.

1:23:04 But it was cool to see so many people relate it to you. I mean, I just think that it's a phenomenal job that you're doing. Thank you. It's the ripple effect. It's the ripple effect. Yep. Absolutely. 100%. It was so super cool. It was so super cool. But I know I'm building a thread right now on.

1:23:34 some of the connections to the vaccine that I found and where I think they were headed. And it's pretty damning. And I think you'll be able to associate it to some things that they pushed through Vietnam and even the Gladio operations after. But for my own side interest, in my nerdy little free time, I'm definitely going to be taking this space and re-listening to it in the mind of MKUltra.

1:24:00 Because I think that this was the testing ground, just like World War II was the testing ground for nuclear and eugenics. I think this war was created to be a testing ground for psychic and psyche stuff. Yeah, they've definitely, you can't look at how many different configurations of these interrogation centers that they went through. Because just today we talked about three different, well, over the last two days, we've talked about three iterations of them.

1:24:30 And it's almost as if this one didn't get quite where they wanted to go. So we're going to reconfigure them and we're going to do this. And then this one didn't get quite what we wanted. So we're going to reconfigure them and do this. We're talking just about the actual physical reshuffling of the deck, not the why, because of course those are classified and probably still have not yet been released. But you can definitely get the impression.

1:25:00 that as a result of all of this um we ended up um with a manipulation program um orchestrated here um doing basically the same thing without the physical piece of it well i have a feeling like what marie was saying you know because of like

1:25:27 you know, the first time I think that they did the mass experimentation of vaccines was, you know, the Spanish flu. And, you know, I just think that this, we've been living literally an experiment project, whether it's a sociology.

1:25:43 type of sociology, socioeconomic, whatever you call it too, you know, whether it's through the banking system, because a lot of the Operation Gladio stuff that Colonel Towner's talking about, and, you know, from my, you know, my knowledge of, you know, like the banking and that kind of industry, it's like, oh my gosh, these things are all tied in. And then from what you're discovering, Marie, you know, along with the Operation Gladio, these things are like...

1:26:07 There's step and step, you know, it's just different layers of this thing, you know, whether it's through food, pharmacy, monetary, you know, governmental, whether, you know, like I think Colonel Towner talked about, you know, like Soviet Union was full-blown communism, you know, and then you have the fascism installed, things that have been going on ever since, you know, and then they've just been fine-tuning it. And right now their fine-tuning is...

1:26:36 happening here. So it's just, yeah. Go ahead, Marie. Yeah, I wanted to comment on cellars. It's like, we all believe it's all separate Petri dishes, but it's all in the same lab, in essence. And all of these things have similar goals. But what I'm learning from Kernel Spaces and from the Gladio operations, we used to say that they'll never let a crisis go to waste. And

1:27:07 I used to have the mindset that that was that these crises happened because human nature was as such. And they just didn't let that go to waste. But what I'm starting to see and how it's changed the way I view things is that the regular society of people are innately good. They innately don't want these crises. But these crises are not just don't let go to waste. They're created specifically for an agenda.

1:27:37 It's not like they're capitalizing on a mishap. This is a programmed destruction so that they can have an end result using our emotional responses, our fight or flight, our learned helplessness to guide us further into these cages, in essence. And the stuff that I've researched is, to me, is the final frontier.

1:28:02 Because you can take away someone's freedom. You can take away their money. You can take away a lot of things. But if they still have their health, they still have a chance to fight. And so if you look at these Gladio operations from that aspect of control, it's not just depop. It's not just war. It's not just these are programmed systematic destructions in places to keep us looking over here or looking over here or looking over here.

1:28:32 where they're leeching slowly the plans that they'd learned from human design in those crises into a global restriction. 100%. Afro-America? Yes, it's African. Thank you for having me again on the stage. And Colonel Tana, I just want to thank you again for all this education I've been getting here. I just linked.

1:29:07 A tweet from somebody called Researcher Stuff. I don't know if you're familiar with him. I have been attending his rooms in which he does an MK ultra deep dive. And it's really mind boggling to relate the information that he is sharing with the information that you are sharing. Most recently, he's been talking into how they used smart people to become.

1:29:34 doctors and psychologists. And then these doctors and psychologists would mentally beat down people through questionnaires or try and get them to just answer things that they wanted them to. And then later in years, you find that these people are then recruited to be like the leader of a certain operation. So it's been very interesting. Research also brings actual victims who have

1:30:01 suffered from MK ultra. And there's just weird things that they talk about. Like one victim was talking about, I still have 15 pins inside my body. And it was just like, wow, this, you cannot make this up. So that's one thing I've been learning a lot between your space and researchers space and just connecting those dots. The second one I wanted to ask was, I have a friend of mine whose father just passed away.

1:30:29 of congestive heart failure. And my friend also has the heart failure. She is in her mid to upper 40s. And she is now wondering whether she was impacted by Agent Orange because her father used to fight in the Vietnam War, but she has no way to start. So I don't know if you have any advice as far as just how you could test out for Agent Orange. I know when I tried to do a quick Google search, it was like,

1:30:59 There's no actual test. And, you know, you have to be registered in the VA system and all this. Now, she is just the daughter of somebody who fought in the Vietnam War. And she's just wondering if her CHF is related to her being exposed to Agent Orange through her father. And then lastly, I totally agree with them. I wasn't looking on my phone. My kids were confusing me a bit. But I totally agree with the speaker who just talked about health.

1:31:28 When I embarked on my health journey and before I did my 40-day juice fast, I remember my health coach saying, if you don't have your health, what do you have? And right now I see how the masses are completely blinded where even it's much easier for them to be convinced on the lies that they've been told.

1:31:49 Versus them to admit that, oh, it's been lies all along and welcome to the truth world. And it all comes down to just how healthy we are. The toxins that we have in our body that just end up clouding our judgment. Even if we have degrees from Harvard University, we still have people who just cannot put some of these two things together. So definitely I'm continuing to be an advocate for health is wealth. If you don't have it, what else do you have?

1:32:19 And then just wondering about that question on the Agent Orange. And thank you so much again. So there's an entire kind of directory of Agent Orange on the VA website. And there are known correlations of the side effects in dependence of people that were there.

1:32:49 Because that's what's happened in Vietnam. There's a lot of kids over there that have all kinds of ailments, deformities that were exposed to Agent Orange. So I'll get you a link on the VA website. And all she has to basically do is have, they have all of her dad's information. So as far as anybody, you know, he has a service record.

1:33:17 If he served over there from the military's perspective, that's kind of the easy part. But it does have a whole bunch of reference material to go and look at what they've actually admitted to. And that's kind of the key point because they wait decades to admit to anything. What the known side effects are that they're admitting to at the current time and see if any of those apply to her.

1:33:46 I followed you, so I'll be able to send you the link. Thank you so, so much. And thanks for the follow. Marie, did you have something? Yeah, sorry. That question caught my attention because Agent Orange really wasn't a topic of conversation as a thing until they started experimenting with depleted uranium unknown to the public.

1:34:16 And one of those places was actually Vietnam. So like you posted earlier today, the VA will admit, the DA won't admit that the depleted uranium causes any harm. But if you look at the comparison of the symptoms of Agent Orange to depleted uranium exposure and Gulf War Syndrome, it may be worth sending her some information that you have, Colonel, on what you're doing for.

1:34:44 um chelation or as far as like a doctor to check for and then to the va has changed their stance on agent orange there are now um admitted um uh i'm i'm drawing a blank on the uh um uh actual terminology they use um if you were in vietnam and you have these ailments

1:35:11 You are presumed to be service connected because they did attribute those to the exposure. Just like in Desert Storm or Desert Storm, like 25 years after the, was it 25? Yeah, right at 25. Yeah, at least 20. They came out with presumed.

1:35:41 um, corollary ailments that they now recognize like migraine, um, headaches, um, that were, um, correlated to the exposures of anybody that was in Iraq. Um, and so they don't say, oh yeah, we threw, um, 350 tons of depleted uranium and we know that they caused this. What they do is they come out and say, okay.

1:36:11 We're not admitting anything, but anybody that has these conditions, which are all the attributes of being exposed to that exact thing. If you have these and you were there, we will say that they're presumed service connected and give you the disability associated with it without any additional paperwork. Yeah, that's a pretty quick cover up because people won't stop like tapping on the door and saying, no, we need to look at this.

1:36:39 And one of the things that made it really difficult is Obamacare. When he locked up veteran records, it made it even harder for people to get this stuff. So it's nice to hear that they're making those changes. I was just saying that there's, if you look at the symptoms of each individual, Agent Orange and DU, the connection in the fall of symptoms, the development of symptoms, and the development of the epigenic, you know, what they're passing in poisons down to their...

1:37:07 their children, their grandchildren, and their grandchildren. It just might send her in a direction as far as like what this person might need to do outside of the VA to help them. And that's all I was referencing. But yeah, you're right. You can't do it inside the VA because the VA will only treat you with medicine. They won't treat you with actual cures. So I'm having to do all of mine at my own personal expense, even though every bit of it was associated with them.

1:37:38 Because all they will do is treat your symptoms. They'll give me migraine medicine, but they won't get the heavy metals out of me that's causing the migraines. Yeah, their end organ treatment, because if they went to the root, it would show where it was done and it would show how long it's been covered up. And then it would show how it's actually leached into the medical industry as acceptable practices.

1:38:03 So they're not going to do that. That's why all Western medicine is end organ treatment. But coming out of this, if you look at back to your Gladio operation, if you look at those interrogations, there's a root cause. I mean, I look at it now and I can sit back and say there's a root cause for that societal narrative. There's a root cause for that societal narrative. But they don't want us looking at that. They just want to play end game treatment. Right. And so rather than be careful with that root cause bullshit, you're going to sound like.

1:38:33 Kamala Harris. That's because I fell out of a coconut tree and then my accent changes depending on what state I go to. And your race, depending on what color you want to be that day. Yeah. Or what nationality you are. Yeah, exactly. Hilarious. All right. Did Cousin Et ever get back in here? No. She must have got called away.

1:39:03 Okay. All right. Do you have anything for us, Bridget? Nope, I think that's it for today. All right. Well, I appreciate everybody being here. We're going to get into the meat of everything tomorrow. And I'm going to jump off here because my daughter's on her way over here and I get to be grandma tonight for the first time all by myself.

1:39:34 Oh, wow. She trusts you. I didn't leave my kids with my parents for, like, two years. Yeah. I'm sorry. Oh, I also wanted to let you guys know, Colonel Tanner, if you're free later, and Bridget, and we'll let Cousin It know, Larry Sinclair is going to be coming into the pond tonight. And golfing is going to be doing, like, an interview with him. But I think you guys might.

1:39:58 You know, find some interest in it if you'd like. And I will be on Alpha Warrior Show tonight at 930. We will be continuing the American Security Council deep dive that we started last week with all their connections to all this mess. So that's tonight at 930 as well. So definitely we'll have. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that about the pond. Sorry about that then.

1:40:27 Everybody can listen to The Pond. I think that's absolute because you can always come back and listen to Alpha Warriors. Most people, Stellar, are so far behind in the Alpha series that they're listening to them after the fact anyway. That is absolutely not a problem. Being there with a space that's interactive, you can only get one chance to interact. So that's definitely a big deal.

1:40:57 Ours, obviously, you know, you can be in the chat, but it's, you know, and we are doing it live, but it is not the same thing at all. So if you can be there and you have questions that you want to ask, absolutely be in the space. But I do know I get this all the time. People either through DMs or will say, I'm only on, I think we're on like 26 or 27. And they're like, I'm only on 17. So.

1:41:26 Most people can't keep up. There's just so much out there with these spaces and then the Alpha show and everything else. I know it's a lot, but you guys, I haven't even put out 10% of what I have learned in this format. It's just crazy the amount of material and the details.

1:41:50 And I think that's kind of the beauty of the Alpha show is it allows me to take a combination of all of it and kind of throw it into one show where these you really have to do the deep dive into the actual country. But the topics that I try to pick for Alpha show is ones that touch all of the shows that we do here.

1:42:14 Because you definitely notice a lot of patterns. And so we pick a pattern and talk about it like the NGOs is what I'm kind of doing right now. Yeah, because I saw on one of the, like, because I'll go through posts and stuff like that and, you know, like to see the mentions. And there have been people that are asking me, why didn't we know about this stuff before? And my answer was censorship and the information being scattered all over. Follow Colonel Towner and connect the dots that way. Yeah.

1:42:46 There's definitely been a blackout on the words Operation Gladio in the United States. What was interesting is when you go back and you look at it in 1990, they did a couple of stories on it when it first broke in August of 1990. But they did it in a way that was very limited hangout.

1:43:14 They knew that it was much bigger. They knew that it applied to all of NATO. So they put it out there, left it alone, and then basically never published anything about it again. And again, like we've discovered, if you don't know the words anti-communist league, the stay behind units, you don't know that they're all strategy of tension. You don't know that they're all the same thing. And that's why I'm very specific about like.

1:43:43 They didn't call the stuff that happened in Africa Operation Gladio, but that's what it was. They used the exact same footprint, the stay behind units, all of it. So by kind of putting it all under that umbrella and being consistent with the terminology and looking at the attributes as opposed to using their words allows you to see things.

1:44:12 And then once you can see it and you've established that it fits that pattern, you know immediately who's responsible for it. NATO. And of course, that aligns, especially in Africa. It aligns with the fact that, oh, where's all of the colonial powers that supposedly divested themselves of the colonies that they had in Africa? But you find every freaking one of them in NATO. So all they did.

1:44:40 under the quote unquote decolonization was recolonized using the NGOs of the World Wildlife Fund and everything else. They never decolonized. They just did a PR trick on us. And so that's why I foot stomp every single time on the terminology, because once you use the standard terms and you come up with a template to grade whether or not it is that or not, you can see patterns and see past their information blocks.

1:45:11 So. And I did tag you guys in. There's a big lawsuit that's happening with the Fox, you know, the Murdoch stuff. I think I tagged you in it. That would be an interesting thing to keep following and stuff like that and why they chose Nevada for that, trying to break through the irrevocable trust of daddy, who is very conservative and the kids are very liberal. So there's something going on and they're doing that fight here.

1:45:40 It's behind closed doors, but they're one of the big legacy media. So that would be a very interesting one. Is the legacy media going to start having to break away from the Mockingbird and MKUltra stuff? Yeah, I saw that, but I didn't have a chance this morning with my doctor's appointment to be able to look into what it was. That's definitely one that would be interesting to watch. Yeah, thanks for putting that out there. All right, guys.

1:46:13 I'm out of here. Have a nice evening and we'll be back at four o'clock tomorrow. Thank you.

Entities here

CIA26 William P. Bundy16 Vietnam14 Roger Hilsman12 Operation Gladio11 Ted Serong10 U.S. State Department10 Vietnam War8 Viet Cong8 Robert Thompson8 South Vietnam7 Korea7 PICs7 United Wa State Army6 MKUltra6 National Police Board6 John Patrick Muldoon6 Special Operations Group5 William R. Scotton4 USAID4 Phoenix Program4 Cambodia4 Jim Jones4 Philippines4 Averell Harriman3 NATO3 Africa3 Joseph McChristian3 Laos3 Police Special Branch3 Chile3 Malaysia3 Australia3 Office of Research and Intelligence3 Cuba2 Allen Dulles2 Spain2 Jonestown massacre2 Uruguay2 Lyndon B. Johnson2

Claims made here

CIA funded MKUltra host_asserted ▶ 4:04

“these experiments, he comes across with a benign agenda that doesn't quite capture the evilness. So what we found when we dug into Jonestown, because we already know about MKUltra and we already know …”

Jim Jones carried_out_attack 1964 Bolivian coup d'état host_asserted ▶ 4:35

“You find out that Jim Jones, which he didn't cover, worked for the CIA and was doing this terrorism-type activity during the coup in Brazil for the CIA. He no longer gets the benefit of the doubt of b…”

Jim Jones member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 4:35

Winston Churchill member_of Fabian Society host_asserted ▶ 5:32

“you completely lose any benefit of the doubt. And that also came across with his take. Everything he says, again, is 100% accurate with his take on Winston Churchill. But if you don't take Winston Chu…”

Winston Churchill member_of Stay-behind units host_asserted ▶ 6:03

“affiliation with the stay-behind units during the Boer Wars and all of that stuff, and then understand that he set up the Jedbergs and all of those types of things, it completely changes the complexio…”

Winston Churchill founded Jedburghs host_asserted ▶ 6:03

Roger Hilsman headed Office of Research and Intelligence documented ▶ 9:19

“So we come across a guy by the name of Robert Thompson, who was from the UK and he was considered a counterinsurgency expert. He was hired by Roger Hilsman, H-I-L-S-M-A-N, in 1961, who was the directo…”

Roger Hilsman recruited Robert Thompson documented ▶ 10:51

“hired Robert Thompson, the UK counterinsurgency guy, to advise the US and all of the police operations in South Vietnam. And you're going to also find later on that we used quite a few Australians in …”

Robert Thompson founded Family Census Program documented ▶ 11:47

“was that he had a very successful interrogation, torture, whatever you want to call it, program that integrated military, civilian intelligence, and police agencies to attack the indigenous people tha…”

CIA funded Police Special Branch documented ▶ 15:34

“Other occasions, the Viet Cong agents deliberately led political action teams into arresting people hostile to the North because they lied. Recognizing these facts, Thomas suggested that the CIA organ…”

Robert Thompson founded Police Special Branch documented ▶ 15:34

CIA funded PICs documented ▶ 16:04

“police special branch was formed from the Vietnamese Bureau of Investigations, and plans were made to build out these PICCs, P-I-C-C, throughout all of the Vietnam provinces. And if you haven't got it…”

William R. Scotton headed Special Operations Group host_asserted ▶ 19:27

“In provinces, the public safety advised policemen to establish curfews and regulate the movement of people. So they also were going to combine the police and paramilitary programs and teach the police…”

William R. Scotton founded Project Delta documented ▶ 22:51

“and take them off to wherever they were going to do their duty. So successful was the Motivational Indoctrination Program that they decided to take it again throughout the entire province. In early 19…”

Project Delta succeeded Operation Leaping Lena documented ▶ 23:15

“which was the successor to the program called Leaping Lena, which we talked about a few days ago. Recruits for the SOG project were profit-motivated people that they could convince to desert their for…”

John Patrick Muldoon headed PICs documented ▶ 26:44

“in terms of little packages, unquote. The thing, of course, was a grand scheme to win the war via the use of these interrogation centers. Another guy by the name of John Patrick Muldoon, M-U-L-D-O-O-N…”

CIA recruited John Patrick Muldoon documented ▶ 27:12

“and he had kind of a weird presence. People called it kind of like a mystery, mystique kind of thing. He was a Georgetown University dropout. He joined the agency, the CIA, in 1958. Both of his sister…”

John Patrick Muldoon founded CIA documented ▶ 27:42

“early 60s, where it says he set up interrogation centers in Seoul, South Korea for the CIA, working with the KCIA that was just outside of Seoul. And then he was moved over to Vietnam. And he basicall…”

CIA recruited John Winn documented ▶ 28:11

“interrogation center that he had set up in Korea over in Vietnam for them to use it there. The CIA then sent a top psychologist, John Winn, W-I-N-N-E, to Seoul to select the particular people that wer…”

Ian Summers headed CIA documented ▶ 31:44

“Muldoon's boss, the CIA chief, Ian Sammy Sammers, S-A-M-M-E-R-S, was working as the station's senior liaison officer. And a guy by the name of Sam Hopper, H-O-P-P-E-R, was in charge of the constructio…”

Sam Halpern founded PICs documented ▶ 31:44

Tony Bartolomucci founded PICs documented ▶ 32:13

“And so there's a couple other guys, I just want to say their name, Tony Bartolomucci, B-A-R-T-O-L-O-M-U-C-C-I, and a guy by the name of Jack Stent, S-T-E-N-T, and Paul Hodges. All of those guys are in…”

Paul Hodges founded PICs documented ▶ 32:13

Jack Stent founded PICs documented ▶ 32:13

Tucker Carlson proposed PICs host_asserted ▶ 33:15

“that if they push back a little bit on the Americans, they get more money. And so there's that dynamic going on too. So one of their ideas as they're building these things out was Tucker, the guy we w…”

Air America trafficked Laos host_asserted ▶ 36:13

“there's this huge interrogation center that they set up in Udorn at the base where the military operations was going on and the home base of Air America that was flying all the missions into Laos and …”

CIA carried_out_attack Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 39:15

“interrogating them because they were for actionable intel in the military operations. But in some cases, several of the military commanders had found out what the CIA was doing to them long-term and n…”

Eugene McCarthy trained Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 39:47

“there's a guy they don't give his whole name they just give his name as gene who had he was a former professional football player from green bay packers um who was over there basically um part of the …”

John Patrick Muldoon spied_on Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 40:15

“World War II or part of Korea or whatever. But he just shows up one day and starts helping with this as a CIA contractor. And, oh, okay. So here it is. Muldoon is talking and these are quotes from him…”

Joseph McChristian removed_from_power CIA host_asserted ▶ 43:30

“permission for the CIA to have access to any of the military prisoners that they got. Since I'm very critical of the military, I do want to applaud them when they do the right thing. And I did not fin…”

William Westmoreland headed Vietnam book_quoted ▶ 46:25

“And this is all about the pacification program. One of them was from General Westmoreland. The corporate warrior, quote, pacification was the ultimate goal of both the Americans and the South Vietname…”

John Paul Vann spied_on Vietnam book_quoted ▶ 47:55

“And keep in mind, because we've already done South America, South America was experiencing this same stuff going on in Vietnam at the same time. Then last one was a guy by the name of John Paul Vann i…”

Lyndon B. Johnson ordered_assassination_of Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 50:41

“So in retaliation for selective terror attacks against Americans in South Vietnam, President Johnson ordered in 1965 a bombing campaign of the North. The raids continued until 1968, the idea being to …”

Lyndon B. Johnson ordered_assassination_of Cambodia host_asserted ▶ 51:38

“And LBJ also ordered the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, which, again, were supposed to be completely neutral. They weren't even in it. But we had already infiltrated them as well and set up these stupi…”

Lyndon B. Johnson ordered_assassination_of Laos host_asserted ▶ 51:38

CIA carried_out_attack Cambodia host_asserted ▶ 52:07

“Project 404, that's a very interesting operation. Project 404 sent agents into this countryside to locate targets for B-52. They would fly from Guam and bomb Laos and Cambodia, again, supposed to be n…”

CIA carried_out_attack Laos host_asserted ▶ 52:07

William P. Bundy headed National Police Board host_asserted ▶ 56:56

“You know, so we're going to reorganize again because a continued nothing's working. So in comes a guy by the name of Colonel William Pappy Greaves, G-R-I-E-V-E-S. He becomes the senior advisor to the …”

William P. Bundy member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 57:54

“the best of the best from that perspective. But he had also, interestingly, worked with the CIA for the Greeks. When the CIA did their coup and they installed the five colonels, they helped that milit…”

CIA overthrew Greece host_asserted ▶ 57:54

Byron Engle recruited William P. Bundy host_asserted ▶ 59:51

“from the Agency of International Development, AID, which is the precursor to USAID. So they're going to take this guy who was on the payroll of the Army, working basically for the CIA, and they're goi…”

USAID front_for CIA host_asserted ▶ 59:51

Ted Serong member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 1:01:11

“I've already told you that they had people that had been in Malaysia that worked doing this kind of garbage in Malaysia for the UK, the Robert Thompson guy. Well, he has a friend that's from Australia…”

Ted Serong member_of Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:01:41

“What his job was, he was, I just posted it on my ex feed. He was involved in an organization that if you do the research on, looks a lot, awful lot like a domestic Gladio operation. It talks about it …”

CIA funded Ted Serong host_asserted ▶ 1:02:41

“He was being paid both by Australia and by the CIA. The problem that was that the CIA wanted to establish a field police that was under the CIA's control and not Vietnam's control. The CIA tried to do…”

Ted Serong supplied_arms_to Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 1:03:39

“And trying to make it anti-Viet Cong and not about actually policing the South Vietnamese, everything got turned on its head. There was no accountability. The CIA was furnishing weapons that were not …”

CIA founded Provisional Reconnaissance Units host_asserted ▶ 1:06:52

“was a significant event. In the eyes of Sorong and the crew, the field police were to be the outlet for the CIA. So when it became obvious that they were a part of the national police, the CIA develop…”

CIA recruited Michigan State University host_asserted ▶ 1:09:16

“the Michigan State University people that are going to set up Phoenix arrives in theater. So I've already told you all about how chaotic, how messed up all of this stuff is. And into this, we are goin…”

Roger Hilsman member_of U.S. State Department guest_asserted ▶ 1:12:21

“Oh, never mind. Yeah. All right. Bridget, who's next? Are they all along? All right. Hi. Yeah, Colonel. I wanted to make a comment on your mentioning this guy. Of course, the name just slipped my mind…”

Averell Harriman member_of U.S. State Department guest_asserted ▶ 1:12:54

“was, you know, strongly influenced by CIA. What was his name again? Hold on, I'll have to go back to my notes. What was your point? Well, my point is that he's so important, I forgot his name. Because…”

James Forrestal member_of U.S. State Department guest_asserted ▶ 1:13:52

“when he died in 1949, extremely significant in terms of, will the president be able to control this new, you know, the services conflict that, you know, strongly influenced World War II. That was a hi…”

Roger Hilsman founded To Build a Nation guest_asserted ▶ 1:15:15

“Because there were still some people in the three branches who actually thought they were still trying to do their job. And same with journalism, by the way. Now everybody knows who's boss. But it was…”

Roger Hilsman spied_on Chiang Kai-shek guest_asserted ▶ 1:15:45

“This CIA gradual takeover of policy from all aspects of the State Department. And it's just so worth reading if you get a chance. Hilsman's book. I'll check the title on it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's int…”

Paul Helliwell spied_on Chiang Kai-shek host_asserted ▶ 1:17:41

“Oh, sure. Yeah. So it says he was with he was in Burma, which means he would have been there with Paul Helliwell because Paul Helliwell was the leading OSS guy hanging around with Chiang Kai-shek. So,…”

Roger Hilsman member_of North Atlantic Treaty Organization host_asserted ▶ 1:18:11

“No, no, he wasn't. Oh, and in 1951, he's working at NATO. Oh, come on. You know? So, anyway. Yeah. Well, I think that possibly JFK perceived him as a little bit different, more along the lines of what…”

NATO carried_out_attack Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:43:43

“They didn't call the stuff that happened in Africa Operation Gladio, but that's what it was. They used the exact same footprint, the stay behind units, all of it. So by kind of putting it all under th…”

NATO carried_out_attack Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 1:44:12

“And then once you can see it and you've established that it fits that pattern, you know immediately who's responsible for it. NATO. And of course, that aligns, especially in Africa. It aligns with the…”

World Wildlife Fund front_for NATO host_asserted ▶ 1:44:40

“under the quote unquote decolonization was recolonized using the NGOs of the World Wildlife Fund and everything else. They never decolonized. They just did a PR trick on us. And so that's why I foot s…”