The Colonel’s Corner The Devils Chessboard Part 10

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Transcript

0:00 Hello, Ms. Bridget. Good afternoon, Colonel. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Wonderful, wonderful. So before we get started, while we're waiting for a few more people to get in, I wanted to share something. I'm going through a 157-page document that came out with the recent JFK declassification. And it was funny, I got to a part in it where...

0:31 one of the Cuban exiles is talking to the CIA and it says, this is from a memorandum in a CIA file on Roberto Perez San Roman. In his 23 January meeting,

0:59 with Robert Kennedy, Perez remarked that he had discussed brigade problems, meaning 2506 Brigade in general, with the writer of Office of Security, which is a CIA, whom he apparently identified as his only agency contact. According to Perez, the attorney general, meaning Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, asked for the writer's identity, which Perez

1:24 who knows the writer only as Bob was unable to give. And then in parentheses, it put Robert Morani. Well, I looked up Robert Morani and there's like literally nothing about him on the internet, except one thing, even using Yandex. So Robert Morani obviously worked for the CIA.

1:55 Because he was the Cuban exile's handler. And, not surprising to anybody in our audience, Robert Marani was an investment banker in Houston. That's so funny. Didn't we, and I know sometimes the names are all blending together, but didn't we just cover him in the Economic Hitman? No, his name wasn't in there.

2:26 They're all just blending together at this point. Because I checked that. Yeah, yeah. It is funny. And this would have happened in, because these memos were all written around 1968. And so in the 70s is when the whole Houston mafia stuff started and then obviously transitioned in the 80s to the savings and loan thing.

2:52 I just thought I'd share that with you. Let me get back over here to Rumble and get us started over there. Yeah, it all blends together. It's one big club and we're not in it. Amen. But we're shining light on it. Big time. All right, we're going to get started. We're in the chapter of the power elite. We're going to finish that up. Okay, we're in September 1953.

3:21 43-year-old Senator Joseph McCarthy married his office aide, a 29-year-old former college beauty queen named Jean Kerr, with great pomp and ceremony at St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington, D.C. Pope Pius XII bestowed his apostolate blessing on the couple and 1,200 guests.

3:51 including Vice President Nixon, CIA Director Alan Dulles, and young Senator JFK, whose father was a strong McCarthy supporter, crowded in the cathedral. Afterwards, McCarthy and his new wife were whisked away in a limousine to a celebrity study party at the Patterson Manson on DuPont Circle, where the couple cut the wedding cake and prizefighter Jack Dempsey

4:22 Kiss the Bride. Verited by the Capitol's political luminaries and Hollywood royalty, McCarthy stood at the pinnacle of his power on his wedding day. The Republican sinner had come a long way from the Wisconsin dairy farm where he grew up. He had financed his political rise by taking payoffs from Pepsi-Cola and prefab construction moguls.

4:53 In truth, he never lost his taste for the swag of politics. One of his wedding gifts was a pink Cadillac presented to him, ironically, by a Houston businessman who shared his militant anti-communist mantra. So I had to look up who that was. That was Eugene Biggers, B-I-G-G-E-R-S.

5:27 By 1953, McCarthy's anti-red witch hunt was in full blaze, torching the careers of distinguished senators, statesmen, and even beginning to flicker ominously outside the White House itself. The FBI's Hoover, long a powerful supporter, was growing increasingly anxious about McCarthy's inflamed ambitions. That summer, Hoover warned the new administration,

5:57 that he had learned there was a conspiracy to sabotage Eisenhower's presidency and replace Ike with McCarthy. A carnival of shame and humiliation that McCarthy brought to Washington held the Capitol in its grips from February 1950, when he delivered his infamous speech in Willing, West Virginia, that kicked off his inquisition, to December 1954, when the Senate finally voted to censure him.

6:27 Triggering his rapid political and physical collapse. No one from the loftiest general to cabinet member or to the lowliest government clerk was immune from his suspicious gaze. When he ran out of alleged communist sympathizers to drag before his Senate permanent subcommittee on investigations, he began prowling the halls of Washington in search of closeted homosexuals.

6:57 which he referred to as powder puffs. Apparently, there was a lot of them. The Floyd McCarthy's pageant is a fascinating case study in the dynamics of Washington power. The senator was a glaring outsider from the Capitol elite salons, a hard-drinking ex-Marine. He seemed to defy the neat power categories of C. Wright Mills, fueled more by

7:26 some sort of ideological fervor and murky sponsorship that would characterize other political movements. McCarthy was not educated at Ivy League schools, and he was never courted by Wall Street firms. He went to Marquette University in Milwaukee. He carried around a barroom bully sense of grievance.

7:57 He once assaulted Drew Pearson in a cloakroom of an exclusive club, pinning the muckrakers' arms behind him and kneeing him in the balls. Vicious payback for all the columns Pearson had written about McCarthy's career. And yet, backed in the beginning by Hoover's investigative apparatus, as well as the Catholic Church and the Hearst and McCormick press.

8:26 The thuggish senator was able to turn his chairmanship of the previously obscure subcommittee into one of the Capitol's most powerful perches. Washington's VIPs hated and feared him, but they also paid homage to him. McCarthy was a monster of the Republican leadership's own creation. By the time he claimed the national spotlight in 1950, the GOP had long been using the dark incantations

8:56 of treason and un-Americanism for political advantage against Democrats. It was only a matter of time before a specter like McCarthy began to rise up in this toxic atmosphere. Nixon had exploited these themes to great effect in his senatorial and Senate races, as did Tom Dewey. He was constantly on the defensive against Republican charges that communists were honeycombed throughout the federal bureaucracy. In truth,

9:27 Truman imposed a loyalty test on federal employees and created an extensive surveillance apparatus to go with it, which turned up few real security risk. He also shredded the Bill of Rights by unleashing a wave of prosecutions against Communist Party officials, thereby effectively outlawing the party and demolishing much of the organized left. Realizing that he had crossed a constitutional Rubicon, a troubled

9:56 Truman wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt, the New Deal's aging but unbending icon, and insisted that he was not trying to set off a witch hunt. But that's indeed what he had done. As Eisenhower took over the White House in 1953, it was uncertain whether the most dynamic force in Washington would be the new president or a senator from Wisconsin. Eisenhower confided that he reviled McCarthy nearly as much as he had Hitler.

10:26 But he kept pulling back from confronting him. When Ike had ventured into McCarthy's home state during the 52 campaign, making a whistle stop in Green Bay, the senators shared the platform with him. Before speaking to the crowd, Eisenhower leaned over to McCarthy and told him, I'm going to say that I disagree with you. McCarthy looked the general squarely in the face. Quote, if you say that, you'll get booed.

10:55 unquote, Eisenhower stood his ground. I've been booed before. But when it came time to speak, Eisenhower buckled and never said a word. The GOP campaign in 1952 thoroughly embraced McCarthyism. Nixon took the leading Republican role as hatchet man so that Eisenhower could assume a more dignified posture. In September,

11:20 Nixon vowed to make the communist conspiracy the theme of every speech from now until election. McCarthy, in turn, performed loyally for the party, putting his gutter techniques to use at the service of the campaign. Democratic presidential candidate Adelaide Stevenson, he declared in a widely broadcast speech in October, would continue the suicidal Kremlin-shaped policies of this nation.

11:47 At one point, McCarthy pretended to confuse Stevenson with the accused traitor Hiss, calling him Alger, I mean Adeline. But after Eisenhower's victory, McCarthy quickly made clear that he considered the new Republican administration fair game as well. The monster was loose and nobody in Washington was safe. Before the Dulles-dominated Eisenhower administration could get on with its ambitious plan for running the world,

12:17 It first had to secure the Capitol when the dangerous senator continued to make strong men cower. During the first year of Eisenhower's presidency, McCarthy would boldly target the three institutions at the very center of Washington's global power, the State Department, the CIA, and finally the Army.

12:41 The different ways these institutions grappled with the assaults from McCarthy shed a fascinating light on Washington's pyramid of power, as well as on the distinctive personalities of the Dulles brothers. It would become clear in the course of this power struggle who welded the biggest sword. There was little doubt about who the big brother was in the Dulles family. Foster had carried himself with a grave sense of...

13:09 family responsibility ever since he was a boy, while Alan felt free to pursue his pleasures well into adulthood. Though the elder brother's advice, as Eleanor discovered, was not always sound. She once lost her savings on a bad investment that Foster had advised her to make. Nonetheless, the Wall Street wise men projected a sober wisdom. Titans of industry played close heed to his counsel.

13:39 As the brothers assumed their positions in the Eisenhower government, they brought with them a unique working chemistry, one that had been forged from the time they had shared their task on the Lake Ontario fishing expeditions. Their relationship was not without its tensions and petty squabbles. Foster seemed blithely unaware of Allen's frustrations. The thing that puzzles me

14:06 A great deal is that I'm not sure how much Foster realizes this situation, Eleanor observed later. But Eleanor, the sister, could feel Alan's jealousy and competitiveness. Alan was well aware of the Washington chatter about the unusual brother act. He would remark years later, but I was very conscious of the danger in that situation.

14:36 but tried to avoid either the appearance or actions that could justify any criticism. It was very important to Allen that people not think he got his CIA position because of his brother. You see, he told a historian after his brother's death, I was in there before my brother became Secretary of State. I was the Deputy Director of the CIA. So then when Bedell Smith retired, it was more or less normal that I would be appointed. I mean,

15:06 That was not considered a particular show of nepotism on the part of Eisenhower. Personally, Eisenhower and I were very close to each other. We'd gotten to know each other very well. Nobody, as far as I know, I'm sure Foster exercised no pressure at all because it was quite normal that I would take over the place. But that wasn't the truth. Foster did exert his influence on his brother's behalf and Eisenhower never felt close to the younger Dulles.

15:36 regarding him as a necessary evil in the fight against communism. The Dulles brothers' partnership proved very effective. They conferred on a regular basis during their Washington reign. Quote, normally they saw each other once or twice, maybe three times a week. Allen used to go to Foster's house on Saturday and sit down and talk to him for hours. Unquote. After Foster reluctantly agreed to give

16:04 the State Department's bond desk, which ran, that was the liaison to the German BND and Galen organization. Sometimes she would join her brothers at their home and she would later say, I know Foster valued those conversations. And keep in mind, Eleanor ends up in the research and intelligence.

16:34 in charge of the research and intelligence division in the State Department, which is the belly button for the CIA. So it was the three of them running foreign policy and action. Foster was somewhat of a loner. Allen was Foster's essential link to the Georgetown power circles where the spymaster easily circulated. He collected vital gossip and inside information during his social outings for his brother.

17:07 It was Allen, the master of persuasion and seduction, who also expertly handled relations with the press. He counted among his friends, not only the press barons, such as Luce and the New York Times publisher, author Hayes Sulzberger, and TV network moguls like William Paley of CBS, but also leading Washington pundits like Joseph and Stuart Alsop.

17:36 Allen enjoyed whining and dining the nation's opinion makers, while Foster would almost rather negotiate with the Russians than be bothered by any of them. The brothers sometimes clashed. David Attlee Phillips, a CIA counterintelligence official whose career flourished under Allen Dulles, later recalled the time that Foster instructed his brother to arrange a secret CIA payment to a foreign political candidate. After consulting with his operatives in the field,

18:07 Allen informed his brother that it was a bad idea. The Secretary of State said he had not asked whether it was a good or bad idea, but that he had instructed the CIA chief to get it done. The cash was delivered and the candidate lost, a fact noted by Phillips with evident satisfaction, i.e. Allen Dulles had been right. On other occasions,

18:34 Alan expressed his opposition to his brothers in more vehement terms. He once told Foster that a speech he planned to deliver on the Soviet Union was rotten and he should scrap it. I'm the Secretary of State and it's my speech, Foster said, and I'll damn well say what I want to. But Alan would not back down. My Soviet expert here says it's wrong and I won't let you make a damn fool of yourself as Secretary of State.

19:04 By and large, though, the Dulles fraternal partnership was a machine humming efficiently. We didn't realize in the early winters of 1953, as the new administration took shape, just how cozy the brother arrangements for handling all of American business abroad would be, recalled a veteran CIA officer, Joseph Smith.

19:28 It came to mean very quickly that when a situation would not yield to normal diplomatic pressures, Allen Boies was expected to step in and take care of it. Before business abroad could be addressed, business at home needed to be taken care of. As the Eisenhower presidency got underway in January of 1953, the State Department was the target of no less than 10 separate ongoing congressional probes by McCarthy. He saw the State Department.

20:05 as a hotbed of pansies, pointed head intellectual, parlor room pinkos, and other soft types that were vulnerable to communism. In the beginning, Foster thought McCarthy's reign of terror could be useful. He was just as eager to get rid of some of the people in the State Department. Foster agreed to hire a security deputy to oversee a massive screening of all State Department employees.

20:35 McLeod, the man hired, was an ex-FBI agent and former reporter for a New Hampshire newspaper called the Manchester Union Leader. McLeod, who proudly displayed an autographed photo of McCarthy on his desk inscribed to a great American, was the Wisconsin Senator's man inside the State Department. Like McCarthy, McLeod brought a cynical Irish

21:04 beat cop's attitude to the complex task of sorting out beliefs and allegiance in the U.S. diplomatic corps. McCloy, an anti-intellectual, shrewd, quick-tempered, and vindictive is how John Foster Dulles eventually described him. McCloy's witch hunt turned up very few genuine worrisome suspects.

21:35 Most of its victims were highly competent, experienced members of the Foreign Service whose policy difference with the new Dulles regime simply rendered them incompatible for service. A number of these purge victims, such as John Carter Vinson and John Paton Davies Jr., were veterans of the China desk, where their only crime was infuriating the right-wing Taiwan.

22:05 China lobby group, by honestly evaluating why communist revolutionary Mao had defeated the drug kingpin, Chiang Kai-shek. You're not allowed to talk about facts. The civil service apparatus was supposed to protect people like that, but it didn't. Foster even forced out one of the brightest, most respected intellectual stars in the foreign service establishment, Soviet expert,

22:35 George Kennan, simply because he took exception to the Secretary of State's liberation strategy aimed at Eastern Europe, a policy so dangerous that even Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers themselves would soon make clear that they had no intention of following through on. As McCloy quickly assembled,

22:57 battalion of some 350 inexperienced but gung-ho investigators began snooping through the State Department employee records, a cloud of fear settled over the State Department. Those whose files were tagged and sent over to McCarthy's subcommittee knew their days in government was over. Nobody would endear the relentless grilling at the hands of McCarthy and his ruthless chief counsel, Roy Cohn. They could expect...

23:29 their career to be ended. By the time McCarthy's Washington bonfires were extinguished two years later, the careers of several hundred State Department officers laid in ashes. Early in the McCarthy-McLeod Inquisition, Foster realized that it would burn out of control. While he was happy to see political opponents consumed in its flames, he soon grew worried that the State Department itself was at stake.

23:56 But subjecting employees to humiliating loyalty tests and exposure of their private lives, the wide-reaching security program was emptying the State Department of some of the best and brightest. Even Eleanor Dulles, who was reluctant to confront her brother, felt compelled to complain to him. After all, the State Department was a family business. It had been entrusted to John Foster.

24:23 And now he was allowing McCarthy to ruin it. Eleanor had seen the danger early on when the Eisenhower-Nixon campaign made the alliance with McCarthy. She first confronted John Foster, quote, I went over to New York. I called up Foster and said, I'm coming. He said, come to dinner. You know, he was generous and friendly in that sort of way. He was very frank though. If he didn't want you, he would tell you. But I went to dinner.

24:53 and he made a very fine martini. He looked at me sort of queerly and said, you must have come over here for a serious purpose. She said, I have. But then I said to him, I want you to know that I think this is an evil business that's going on. If the Republicans don't repudiate McCarthy, I'm going to vote on the Democrat ticket. Eleanor's threat only had the effect of amusing Foster. In the end,

25:24 Foster Dulles never confronted McCarthy, even when the senator repeatedly embarrassed both the president and the secretary. The administration had no sooner taken office than McCarthy began using his Senate power to hold up the nominations of key appointments, including close associate like Beatle Smith, who had been nominated to serve as Foster's undersecretary of state. Smith had annoyed.

25:51 McCarthy at some point by saying something positive about a State Department official whom the senator said was a card-carrying communist. Eisenhower was infuriated by McCarthy's antics. The senator was challenging the new president's authority to control his own government. Ike's Cold War propaganda advisor, C.D. Jackson, a fascinating and somewhat mysterious character who had a background in the OSS,

26:19 and served as an intelligence link among the White House, the CIA, and Henry Luce's media empire, advised the president to launch an all-out attack on McCarthy. But Nixon, who thought of McCarthy as a friend, an ally, urged the administration to try to make the troublesome senator a member of their team. Nixon was supported by others in the president's inner circle, including Beatle Smith.

26:46 who warned that a direct assault on McCarthy would risk splitting the Republican Party. Sounds so familiar. Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers decided to use Nixon as their mediator with McCarthy. The two men were cut from the same cloth, aggrieved outsiders in the Ivy League Wall Street world of the power elite. They had both grabbed onto the club of anti-communism as a blunt tool in their ambition.

27:15 They had a working stiff's bitterness that they clearly enjoyed venting at Harvard types like Alger Hiss as much as they did at hardcore communists. McCarthy went as far as challenging the nomination of Harvard University James Conant as high commissioner to Germany before Nixon could talk him down. But Nixon was more sophisticated and intelligent than McCarthy. McCarthy's ambition was a raw force.

27:45 President Eisenhower or the mighty Dulles brothers stood in his way. Nixon, on the other hand, knew that men like these controlled their path to the top, and he was eager to please them. He was, in Adelaide Stevenson's words, McCarthy with a white collar. The vice president kept setting up private meetings with the senator, where he would try to talk sense into him, dangling political favors.

28:11 easily dazzled McCarthy would take Nixon's bait for a while. But a few days later, he would come out swinging again, usurping Eisenhower's power by announcing his own anti-communist measures on accusing other administration nominees of shocking infamy. In the end, not even the wily Nixon could bring McCarthy under control. John Foster

28:38 deathly afraid of losing his job for which he had been groomed since boyhood, did everything he could to placate McCarthy. The elder Dulles observed the veteran diplomat Charles Chip Bolin was a man with one obsession, to remain Secretary of State. To do that, Foster was willing to sacrifice just about anything and anyone, including his dignity. Alan Dulles would later say, my brother was never a witch hunter.

29:08 I mean, he realized the subtleties of communist penetration and all that, but he didn't go along with a sort of blanket condemnation of people. The truth, however, is that Alan Dulles' groveling efforts to placate McCarthy not only encouraged his aggression, but institutionalized his witch hunt. When Eisenhower nominated Chip Bolin, who had served in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow before and during the war,

29:35 To be his ambassador to the Soviet Union, McCarthy inevitably detected something amiss, a hint of homosexuality somewhere in his family. It turned out that the allegations involved his brother-in-law. Bolin was an upstanding member of the Foreign Service Club, as an American establishment had ever produced. Grandson of the U.S. Senator, graduate of Harvard, respected member of the Democratic Corps since 1929, advisor to three presidents.

30:05 Eisenhower decided that this time he would take a stand. He recruited his rival, Senator Robert Taft, leader of the GOP's right wing, to help push Boland's nomination. But Foster remained a bundle of nerves throughout the Boland confirmation, testified that if the nominee's head was lopped off, his would be next. The Secretary of State was ready at any moment to urge Eisenhower to abandon Boland if it got too hot.

30:34 When Foster and Bolin were being driven to the nominee's Senate confirmation hearing, Foster awkwardly asked Bolin not to be photographed with him. Later, after Bolin was finally confirmed, Foster asked the new ambassador, who planned to fly to Moscow a week or two ahead of his family, to delay his trip so his solo arrival in Russia would not set off another heated speculation about his sexuality.

31:02 During the early months of Eisenhower's presidency, Foster repeatedly surrendered to McCarthy. When the senator shifted his target from communists to homosexuals, Foster allowed his employees' privacy to be blatantly violated. Ironically, it was McCarthy's aggressive chief counsel, Roy Cohn, who took the lead in questioning suspected homosexuals. Which is weird, because Cohn was homosexual.

31:36 He had installed his 26-year-old playmate, a golden boy with no particular credentials, named David Shine, on his staff. So Roy Cohn, a noted homosexual, employed the guy that he's sleeping with on his stuff while he's looking for homosexuals in the State Department. The son of a hotel and movie theater tycoon, Shine,

32:07 it's spelled S-C-H-I-N-E, was known while a Harvard undergraduate for paying secretaries to take class notes for him. Essentially, Shine was Cone's dumb blonde. Despite his own sexual leanings, Cone took obvious pleasure in humiliating the gay witnesses who appeared in front of the subcommittee, demanding to know the locations and partners that they had.

32:35 McCarthy next went after the Voice of America, the State Department's Cold War propaganda arm, which of course is the CIA front. It was supposedly a hotbed of communist infestation. By April, 830 of the Voice of America's 1,400 employees had been purged, including its chief. That same month, Cone and Shine

33:05 announced that they were setting off for Europe together to inspect the libraries maintained by the U.S. embassies. These libraries were supposed to be a balanced collection of American thought, showcases for U.S. tolerance and diversity. But Cohn and Shine were determined to cleanse the libraries of any book that was suspected left-leaning. The Pairs investigative junket

33:31 which one subpoenaed author labeled a book-burning tour, turned into a public relations disaster, provoking widespread ridicule in European press. While visiting Frankfurt, Cohn and Schein found other ways to embarrass their country. According to local newspapers, engaging in flirtatious

33:55 antics in the lobby of hotels, leaving their hotel room in shambles after a vigorous round of horseplay that the reporters left up to the reader's imagination. But instead of criticizing McCarthy's rowdy henchmen, John Foster dutifully called the embassy libraries of all the impure books, including works by noted authors.

34:23 Cone even wanted to ban the soaringly American music Aaron Copland from the libraries, which also loaned records because the composer had made the mistake of signing petitions defending civil rights leader Harry Bridges and other beleaguered left-wing heroes. This was Washington at the dawn of the Eisenhower-Dulles era.

34:50 when the most powerful men in the Capitol lived in fear of being served subpoenas by a drunken senator, when even John Foster Dulles trembled before McCarthy's brute force. It would take Foster's iron-nerved brother to bring him to heel. In July of 1953, after having his way with John Foster's State Department, McCarthy came after his brother's CIA, announcing in

35:18 His usual imprecise way that he possessed tons of evidence that revealed widespread communist infiltration of the CIA. McCarthy's prime suspect was Ivy League educated CIA analyst William Bundy, whose profile made him the perfect embodiment of the Dulles agency man. A member of Yale's secretive Skull and Bone Society, breeding ground for future spooks, Bundy joined Army intelligence during the war.

35:47 working in England as part of the Ultra operation that cracked Nazi codes. Dulles was close to Bundy's father, Harvey, a top diplomat who had helped oversee the Marshall Plan, as well as the younger brother, McGeorge, another product of Skull and Bones, and Army Intelligence, who had worked with Dulles at the CFR and Dewey's presidential campaign. McCarthy hoped to make Bill Bundy

36:16 his Alger Hiss. And in fact, one of the main pieces of incriminating evidence he waved against him was that Bundy had contributed $400 to Alger Hiss' defense fund. But the Bundys were solid members of Allen Dulles' inner circle, and Dulles did not easily abandon men, unlike his brother. The spymaster finally decided to draw the line, and ensuing explosive confrontation led ultimately to McCarthy's downfall.

36:45 Taking on McCarthy at the height of his power was a daunting task, even for the director of the CIA. Dulles knew that, despite J. Edgar Hoover's growing doubts about McCarthy, the FBI still fed him a stream of damaging information about his Washington enemies. Hoover, a sworn rival ever since Dulles outmaneuvered him to create the CIA in 1947, had amassed a thick file on Dulles and his busy, adulterous life.

37:12 Hoover even suspected Dulles of secret communist leanings, a delusion as fantastic as any of McCarthy's wild claims. At least one high-ranking CIA official, Robert Amory, the agency's top intelligence analyst, was convinced that the FBI had tapped his phone. But Dulles, too, was a master at this sort of game. He had made sure his agency kept its own files on Hoover.

37:42 James Angleton liked to say that any intelligence service that doesn't keep a close eye on its own government wasn't worth its own salt. Penetration begins at home, he said. The CIA counterintelligence chief was rumored to occasionally show off photographic evidence of Hoover's intimate relationships with his deputy, Clyde Tolson. And it's a well-known fact that J. Edgar Hoover

38:11 was homosexual as well. Dulles' wisecracking mistress, Mary Bancroft, tried to call the FBI director, the Virgin Mary, in pants. Dulles compiled even more scandalous files on Joe McCarthy's sex life. The senator who relentlessly hunted down homosexuals in the government was widely rumored to haunt the Byrd Circuit.

38:38 near Grand Central Station, as well as gay hideaways in Milwaukee. Drew Pearson got wind of stories, but was never able to get any proof to run them. But the less discriminating Hank Greenspun, editor and publisher of the Las Vegas Sun, who was locked in an ugly war of words with McCarthy, let the allegations fly. Greenspun had been given access to the Pearson files.

39:06 He had picked up his own McCarthy stories, including young hotel bellboys and elevator operators during the senator's gambling trips to Vegas. Joe McCarthy is a bachelor of 43 years, wrote Greenspun. He seldom dates girls, and if he does, he laughingly describes them as window dressing.

39:27 It is common talk among homosexuals who rendezvous at the White House Inn in Milwaukee that Senator Joe McCarthy has often engaged in homosexual activities, he said. McCarthy's wedding announcement triggered more wicked chatter in the Capitol, where many saw it as a ploy to dispel the rumors. The senator was as surprised as many others to read the announcement of his pending nuptials.

39:55 It was his mother-in-law-to-be who had placed the notice in the newspaper. McCarthy's young bride was described in one gossip magazine as a bright, shrewd, and very ambitious young lady, an opportunist. One Hoover aide later denied the gay reports about McCarthy, insisting that the allegations were blowback against the senator because he had dared to take on the Dulles brothers. But Hoover kept his own files on McCarthy, one of which was filled with disturbing stories.

40:24 about McCarthy's habit of drunkenly groping young girls. The story were so widespread that they became common knowledge at the Capitol, according to one FBI chronicler. Walter Trohan, Washington's bureau chief for the Chicago Tribune, who witnessed McCarthy's molesting behavior, said he just couldn't keep his hands off young girls. While the communist opposition didn't plan a minor on him,

40:54 and cry, rape, I don't know. The communist opposition might have missed the opportunity, but the CIA was clearly prepared to leak stories about McCarthy's behavior, stories so sordid that they would destroy his career. This gave Dulles leverage in his battle with McCarthy that none of these senators, other political opponents enjoyed. There was an explosive sexual subtext.

41:22 to the CIA's power struggle with McCarthy, one that had largely been hidden from the public, but would eventually erupt in the Senate hearings. But the public witnessed, was fascinating enough, a clash of titans on the verge of a constitutional crisis. When McCarthy tried to subpoena Bill Bundy, Dulles simply stonewalled him. The agency had Bundy spirited away to an undisclosed location, and when Roy Cohn

41:50 called to demand that he testify. That very day, he was told that Bundy was on leave. Walter Swaffheimer, the CIA legislative liaison, later remembered the phone call. Roy was furious. What a fight. Later that day, my secretary tracked me down to tell me Cohn wanted to talk to me again, and he wanted me to testify about Bundy's life, but Dulles simply wouldn't allow it.

42:17 When a subpoena arrived for him to go, the CIA director was unfazed. Allen Dulles just took it and gave it to somebody. I wanted it for posterity, but no one ever found it again. On July 9th, 1953, an outraged McCarthy took to the floor of the Senate to denounce Dulles' blatant attempts to thwart the authority of the Senate and demanded that Dulles himself appear before the subcommittee. Dulles still refused to bend.

42:47 But he did drop by McCarthy's office to explain his position. Because of a highly sensitive nature of the CIA's work, Dulles informed the senator his agency must be granted immunity from congressional investigations. McCarthy just had to take his word there wasn't any communists hidden in the agency. If he ever did find any Reds, Dulles later explained to the press, I'd kick them out. I have the power to do that. And don't have to have proof they work for the Kremlin.

43:15 The fact that a man is a communist would be enough. Dulles' defiant position on congressional oversight astonished even the anti-McCarthy Democrats on the subcommittee, like Senator Stuart Symington. But the CIA director never weighed, and he soon won Eisenhower's support. Nixon was again dispatched to meet with McCarthy to work out a face-to-face way for the senator to back down.

43:42 Soon after, McCarthy announced that he and Dulles had come to a mutual agreement to suspend the probe of the CIA. Dulles drove home his victory by making sure that his friends in Washington's press corps reported McCarthy's losing confrontation with the CIA as a major humiliation. On July 17th, syndicated columnist and Allen Dulles' best friend and dinner partner, Joseph Alsop, a journalist so deeply entwined with the CIA,

44:12 that he once declared that it was his patriotic duty to carry its water, announced that Senator Joseph McCarthy had suffered his first total unmitigated, unqualified defeat, having allowed McCarthy to conceal his defeat behind a typical smokescreen of misleading statements. But the background story proves that the junior senator from Wisconsin went down for the count of 10 all the same.

44:40 Dulles proudly collected newspaper coverage of his battle with McCarthy. He was no doubt particularly pleased by one of the clippings he had gathered from the Buffalo Evening News. Washington correspondent, which reported that the CIA director is known here as John Foster Dulles' tougher younger brother. Not all of the press reaction to Dulles' display of defiance was so enthusiastic. Two pillars of journalists.

45:10 whom the CIA director considered old friends, Walter Lippman of the New York Times. Let's see. Syndicated columnist Walter Lippman and the New York Times correspondent Hanson Baldwin took strong issue with Dulles flouting the Senate authority. The argument that the CIA is something apart that is so secret and that it differs in kind from the State Department, for that matter, the Department of Agriculture, is untenable.

45:39 Baldwin struck an even more critical note, quote, a philosophy of secrecy and power is taking hold in Washington under the banner of national security that still exists today. But Dulles' firm stand against McCarthy, a man Richard Helms compared to Goebel, proved enormously popular within the CIA, particularly among the ranks of liberal intellectual types whom Dulles had recruited. While Dulles and his family,

46:10 Were the backbone of the Republicans, he recognized that many of the most passionate Cold War warriors were ex-communists and liberals who not only had firsthand knowledge of the bare-knuckle Communist Party practices, but were eager to prove their patriotism to join American celebration. Dulles further cemented his position with this liberal crowd when he stood by CIA recruit Cord Meyer, another bright young product of Yale.

46:39 who had came under FBI suspicion in August of 1953 for his peace activities. After enduring years of relentless harassment from Red Hunters, many Washington liberals cheered Dulles as a savior. His CIA became known as a haven for intelligentsia and others looked on with suspicion by McCarthy's followers.

47:06 Quote, I emerged from my FBI ordeal with increased respect from Alan Dulles. Dulles proved to be a pillar of courageous strength inside the Eisenhower administration during the McCarthy era. Once he had determined the facts and satisfied himself as to the loyalty of a CIA official, he was prepared to defend him and he refused to give in to the pressure that McCarthy was able to bring to bear. As a result, morale within the agency was high during this period.

47:34 In contrast to the morale at the State Department, where John Foster Dulles was less willing to defend the innocent victims of the McCarthy campaign, unquote. Dulles' defiance of McCarthy won the widespread devotion of liberals, but it established a dangerous precedent. In his very first year as director, Dulles began molding the image of the CIA as a super agency, operating high above mere senators. The CIA would grow more powerful and less accountable.

48:03 every passing year. McCarthy never got over his rough treatment at the hands of the CIA. He would threaten on more than one occasion to reopen his investigation of the agency, but if he had, he might have encountered an even more severe response. In March of 54, McCarthy's subcommittee convened a hearing on alleged threats against the chairman. One witness, a military intelligence officer named William Morgan,

48:31 who had worked for C.D. Jackson in the White House, stunned the subcommittee by recounting a conversation he had had the previous year with a CIA employee by the name of Horace Craig. As the two men were discussing how to solve the McCarthy problem, Craig said, quote, it may be necessary to liquidate Senator McCarthy as was assassinated Louisiana Senator Huey Long.

49:00 There is always some madman who will do it for a price, unquote. And remember, we talked about Huey Long in our other book. The dullest slapdown of McCarthy proved to be fatal turning point for the senator, inspiring a new boldness within the Eisenhower administration that would lead to his collapse.

49:21 A month later, in August of 53, when McCarthy took aim at Reds in the Agricultural Department of all places, Nixon advised Agricultural Secretary Ezra Taft Benson to stand firm, like Alan Dulles, if McCarthy gets out of line. In September, after returning from his honeymoon, McCarthy made his final fatal mistake by taking another central institution, the U.S. National Security, the Army.

49:51 Like Foster Dulles, the spineless army secretary, a former textile executive by the name of Robert 10 Brock Stevens, had done everything he could to appease McCarthy. But the senator had only grown more frothing in his attack, accusing the army of sloppy security measures that had led to hiring subversive civilians. At one point, McCarthy dragged a decorated D-Day hero, General Ralph Zwitsker,

50:20 before his panel and dressed him down like Beatle Bailey, barking at the dignified officer that he was not fit to wear the uniform. Much of the anti-army spleen in the McCarthy office was inspired by an adolescent frustration of the senator's 26-year-old chief counsel, Roy Cohn. When Cohn's boyfriend, David Shine,

50:47 Was drafted into the Army in October of 53, McCarthy's point man began frantically pulling strings on his behalf. Assigned to Fort Dix in New Jersey for basic training, Shine was showered with special privileges, including frequent exemptions from KP duty and weekend passes, so he could be chauffeured to New York City for R&R with Cone.

51:13 Their chauffeur would later testify that the two men also used his back seat for passionate reunions. Shine, who found his army-issue boots uncomfortable, was even allowed to wear a pair of custom-made boots. Oh, my God. When Cone was told that his boyfriend might be transferred overseas, he was enraged. We'll wreck the army, he said. The army will be ruined.

51:43 If you pull a dirty, lousy, stinking, filthy, shitty double cross like that. After months of trying to manage McCarthy, Eisenhower finally reached his breaking point. In February of 54, Massachusetts Republican Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, a close ally of the president, privately warned the army investigation was an attempt to destroy the president politically. There is no doubt about it. He is picking on the army because Eisenhower was in the army.

52:13 Cabot said. The following month, the president authorized Lodge to ask for the publication of a damning report that the Army had been secretly compiling on numerous ways that McCarthy and Cohn had bullied and blackmailed military authorities on Schein's behalf. In response to the scorching Schein report, McCarthy's subcommittee removed him as chairman and called for hearings on the Army's allegation.

52:39 The stage was set for the Army McCarthy hearings, a televised spectacle that turned the tables on the senator and finally ended his infamous reign. McCarthy, who was allowed to participate in the proceedings, gave his usual crude performance, badgering witnesses and shouting points of order whenever he felt the urge to disrupt the drama. But captured in the glare of the TV lights, his coarse act had a repellent effect on the public.

53:08 By the time the Army's distinguished Boston attorney, Joseph Nye Welch, uttered his devastating and instantly rememberable line, have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you no decency? The American people knew the answer. In December 1954, the Senate voted to censor McCarthy when really they were censoring Ray Cohn, not really McCarthy, but whatever.

53:40 He had hired him. By 1956, those who knew the senator were describing him as a sick pigeon, suffering from a host of physical ailments and shuttling in and out of detox. During a visit home in Wisconsin in September, he was seized by delirium and saw snakes flying at him. In May of 1957, he was admitted to Bethesda Naval Hospital. Never go to Bethesda Naval Hospital because you don't come out alive. He died.

54:12 He had drunk himself to death. McCarthy's confrontation with the army would become famous for his undoing, but it was his earlier battle with Alan Dulles that had drawn first blood and made him vulnerable. As McCarthy's stature in Washington shrank, Dulles' grew. No politician during the Eisenhower administration ever seriously challenged the CIA director's rule. With his Washington power base secured, Dulles was ready to take on the world.

54:42 which of course he did a lot. So that's it for today. Holy crap. Just saying, holy crap. I mean, you know, I never, okay. Early on. I don't mean to interrupt. I don't mean to barge in to the middle of the end of your show, but you remember the other day, somebody was talking about how almost everybody in, uh,

55:14 in DC is either gay or pretending to be straight. I mean, the more we go through these stories, the more that we expose, the more I'm confident that what he said is right. I don't know whether that is right or not, but there's a lot of sick puppies in Washington, DC, obviously. Amen. This book is crazy. I'm just telling you. And it just gets better.

55:48 Megan, go ahead. Colonel, thank you again. And I'd like to say, the more things change, the more they remain the same. Yep, that's a true statement. Renee, go ahead. Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Can you please share, because I never really went down the Roy Cohn rabbit hole. I only know when I was...

56:19 you know, looking into Benai Barith and his father was connected to that. And then Trump has a connection to him. Do you mind just kind of giving a three minute, you know, synopsis of the Roy Kahn guy, please? Well, he's very interesting, actually. And he's another one of those people in the Trump orbit that if you wanted to know

56:49 everything about what's bad, you would definitely want to be in his orbit because he had a knack for being around a whole lot of very nefarious things. And of course, I mean, you can tell by his name that his family was a very affluent Jewish family in New York City.

57:18 His dad, if I recall correctly, was a lawyer as well and was also a judge. And that was kind of a long standing tradition in their family. I just pulled it up.

57:48 maternal great uncle was the guy that created Lionel Toy Company, the Lionel Corporation. So very, very wealthy family. Back also, one of his relatives was in the banking business.

58:17 One of them, it was his uncle that was convicted of fraud and went to jail. He attended the Horace Mann School, which is infamous as well. He graduated from Columbia and Columbia Law School. Let's see, I'm just going to go through here. Cone played a prominent role in 1951.

58:48 in the espionage trial of the Rosenbergs. Cone direct examination of Ethel's brother, David Greenglass, produced testimony that was central to their conviction. And then it has a whole thing about his working with the McCarthy hearings. And here's just a list of his clients. George Steinbrenner.

59:20 Onassis, he had a lot of mafia customers. And that's where, if you go back to our book that we did from Whitney Webb, she talks about him a lot and his mafia connections, lots of mafia connections. Tony Salerno, Carmine Galanti, John Gotti, Mario Deontay.

59:50 Studio 54 owners Stephen Rubell and Ian Schrager. He was the attorney for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York. And that got into that Cardinal Spellman. And he was intimately involved in...

1:00:15 I'm not going to remember the names. I don't know if you can find it, Bridget, but there was the child organization that was in New York that was... Covenant House? Covenant House. Yes. Thank you, Illini. Covenant House. And Ray Cohn was directly involved in the Spellman, Covenant House, that whole arrangement as well.

1:00:44 Very, very shady. It says that he also was, let's see, had the business owner, Richard DuPont, as a, let's see, business owner, Richard DuPont. DuPont, then 40.

1:01:06 was convicted of aggravated harassment and attempted grand larceny for his attempt at coercing further representation by Cohn for a bogus claim to property ownership in a case against the actual owner of a residence in Manhattan where DuPont had operated Big Jim and from where he had been evicted. Cohn's other

1:01:36 clients included Alan Dershowitz, which he called Cohn the quintessential fixer. In 1960, Robert Morgenthau, the U.S. attorney in the Southern District, indicted Cohn three times in six years for various charges, all of which he was acquitted for, of course, because he's an icon there. In 63, Cohn and attorney Murray Gotsman

1:02:06 were indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice, alleging that they had obstructed a federal investigation into allegations that Samuel Garfield and others defrauded United Dye and Chemical Corporation out of $5 million. They were acquitted. He was indicted for conspiracy extortion and blackmail. Again, acquitted.

1:02:36 Where I came across him in Gladio was the Western Goals Foundation because basically that too was a CIA front. He was on the board of directors there. Let's see. I love this part. Cohn worked on the 1980 Reagan campaign where he befriended Roger Stone. Cohn aided Roger Stone in Reagan's presidential campaign in the 79, 80, helping Stone arrange.

1:03:09 for John B. Anderson to get the nomination of the Liberal Party of New York, a move that would help split the opposition to Reagan in the state. Roger Stone said Cohn gave him a suitcase that Stone avoided opening and instructed by Cohn to be dropped off at the office of a lawyer for the influential Liberal Party circles.

1:03:39 Rupert Murdoch was a client and clone repeatedly pressured President Reagan to further Murdoch's interest. He is credited with introducing Trump and Murdoch in the mid 1970s. And he also represented Trump in some of the different things that were going on in New York with him.

1:04:08 Wow, very interesting. He is a spicy character. Thank you. Yeah, he's definitely a spicy character. He was diagnosed with AIDS and then eventually died. So he is even said to have dated Barbara Walters, for whatever that's worth. Okay, Illini, go ahead. Hey, Colonel. One quick thought, which connects to your piece with

1:04:43 were hamster today, is if Cone came from a family of, you know, New York County, New York judges, that means that that family, based on what you guys are saying today, probably would have had to have paid a bribe to Tammany Hall to attain that judgeship. At some point. Yeah. So obviously he was pretty familiar with,

1:05:14 with the system there. That's my only comment on Cone. And then the other thing that I have is it's interesting, you know, some of this other information that's coming out increases the value of some of the previously public official story cross-references. For instance, you know, Richard Nixon noted in his memoirs, which I think are...

1:05:42 fascinating here, it's a fascinating connection to this whole story, is Alan Dulles reached out to him to help him defend William Bundy when McCarthy came after him. And so you see the Nixon-Dulles connection at work again, basically trying to, you know,

1:06:14 basically put a top to this whole McCarthyism thing and basically stopping it. And ultimately, of course, you know, resulting in, you know, the end of McCarthy in a lot of ways. But Dulles, you know, reached out to Nixon privately and he documents that in his memoirs. And then I can post another thing to the Nest that talks about Nixon's visit with the Herder Committee as part of the Marshall Plan.

1:06:44 in the late 1940s where he gives his take on the whole thing. But as part of it, the fascinating cross-reference is he flies on a cargo plane out to, you know, the wilderness, out to the mountains in Greece to meet with these, you know, anti-communist fighters out there.

1:07:07 Yeah, who are probably probably wind up becoming part of the Greek junta, you know, 20 years later. Yes. And driving Nixon's relationship there with Pappas, the Cabot Lodges. Yep. You know, all those different characters. I'll also pin that to the nest. But the point is, this is a pretty valuable book. But I think, you know, sometimes you can find the cross references and admissions against interest.

1:07:37 from the very people who were trying to cover different parts of this up to kind of bolster the argument and provide support. This is the stuff that even Richard Nixon and the normies and the people in the mainstream media are forced to acknowledge because Nixon, back in the late 70s, he probably had no idea that some of this other stuff would come out.

1:08:07 Right. I agree. Yeah, he became a judge. His dad became a judge in 1929. What's your thoughts on that, Warhamster? It's a fun chapter. Everything we're talking about there. The judgeship was in where? 1929 in New York. So it would have been about 75 grand at the time, right? Exactly. Well, I got a mic temporarily.

1:08:41 When you were reading earlier, I asked a question on Twitter, but you were mentioning Joseph Smith. Is that Joseph Burkholder Smith? I'll look. Well, the reason I ask it, and stop me if you've covered this in one of your other books, but some of my oldest notes, I pulled that up. Joseph Burkholder Smith was a CIA chief in Mexico. Shackley gets pulled out of Southeast Asia in 73, and Burkholder Smith's the guy who told the story.

1:09:12 But, you know, when Shackley gets back to the Western Hemisphere, he felt like he was having to interview for his own job to keep it. And what they did is they flew him from Mexico down to Argentina. And he tells a story about, I guess he was blindfolded or something, but he gets out and he's in a village. It looks like he's in the middle of Bavaria with swastika flags flying everywhere. And this is right before the cocaine cartel gets started.

1:09:40 His quote was, the prophets were to be used for war without boundaries. These were Germans interviewing him for a CIA job, and they could actually have the power to determine who the deputy station chief of the CIA was. And where did you find that? I don't know. It's one of the earlier books that I read. If I track it down, I'll let you know. I'll find it. It's Joseph Burkholder Smith, and he's actually came out and said all this stuff.

1:10:08 And I just don't know that I don't have the source. OK, so here's the interesting thing in the book itself. They just refer to him as Joseph Smith. But if you go to the index, it's Joseph B. Smith. So it is the same guy. It's got to be. I mean, one in 20 with one one in 26 chance of that being the initial. And I'll I'll find that whole quote for you and send it to you. Everything he talked about. Yeah, because I definitely want that book.

1:10:38 These are notes from, like, 2014, so I don't have a whole lot of detail that I'm reading from right now. Okay. Yeah, that's crazy. They actually mention him one other place in the book that we haven't got to yet. I'm looking. Oh, shit. I'm looking on the page where he's mentioned, and, of course, I come across Lyman Levinsker again. Why does that guy haunt me every place I go?

1:11:11 I don't have his name circled, so I don't know if I'll be able to find it real quick. The other name I have in this part of my notes, and again, these are just bullet points, so I don't have a lot of detail. It's been a long time since I told this story, but it was Miguel Nizar Haro, who's DFS, and I've got notes that he's CIA-FBI linked. It had something to do with a dirty war against leftist guerrillas and arrested in 2024 for disappearances.

1:11:37 I'm trying to remember what that story is, but wasn't that the prince of, what, Indonesia or something? I think so. If only I had a machine on my desk that could look that guy up real quick. Okay, so the other mention of Joseph B. Smith is the Bay of Pigs. It says, among CIA officers aligned with Dulles, according to CIA veteran Joseph B. Smith,

1:12:09 especially those on the Cuba task force. I had a feeling all of those agents there felt almost like the world had ended. So yeah, he was part of the Bay of pigs too. Yeah. And like I said, he was either station chief or deputy station chief of Mexico city. And we know why that was so central with the cocaine cartels. Right. But yeah. And so it's really the part about, I'll find a statement for you before next week, but.

1:12:39 When you said Joseph Smith today, it just popped into my head, and not because of the Mormon Joseph Smith. Yeah, cool. That's a great correlation there. Thank you for that. Renee, go ahead. Yeah, to add on to that, if I may, please. You're probably speaking of, if you're seeing Nazis in mountains, it's probably Bariloche. Bariloche in Argentina, that's where...

1:13:06 A lot of them hung out because after the paperclip and scurrying to Argentina because it was very mountainous and cold and reminded them of home. But interesting about Mexico, Colonel and probably others here, knowing the whole, if you don't mind me tapping into the story of...

1:13:31 Venezuela and the Whistlers and their propaganda stories and everything in the book you're working on with CanCon and Ash. The Whistlers speak of a guy named Victor Manuel Rocha. And he was in the CIA and also I think he was an ambassador in Mexico for quite a while. He was like a career ambassador and jumped around.

1:13:58 And the whistlers say he was a total traitor and a Cuban spy and et cetera, et cetera. And he's in jail now. But I actually tried to do some digging on him. And he was friends. It looks like he probably was like a double, triple agent. But it kind of also, I found him in a timeline that's very similar to Philip Agee. And Philip Agee was in Cuba.

1:14:28 Good grief. Was in Chile at the time trying with the Black Wasps and the, I forget the name of the Cuban military. And they were trying to prevent the coup and with Allende and everything. And they were supplying weapons and whatnot. I'm having a hard time, but I'm going to work on it some more.

1:14:58 I think the whistlers, as you call them. I call them the whistle boys. Oh, the whistle boys. Okay. When they say black, it usually means white. But this guy, I think it's very suspect of he is in prison, but I think he may be a very key piece of being a true whistleblower because his timeline in Mexico City.

1:15:25 Chile, the coups, Operation Condor, Cuba. This guy's got a lot of information to share, I think. And then Philip Agee and being connected to him. And I think the, what was the Bolivian president? Was it Moreno? Morales. Evo Morales. Morales. Yes. They were good friends. He was good friends with him. Oh, that's a death wish right there.

1:15:49 There is something very interesting with this guy who the whistleboys are calling a traitor and is probably not a traitor, but he probably has all the juice. Yeah, because they called Philip McGee one as well. And Philip McGee was absolutely not a traitor. Okay, cool. I just wanted to share that. Yeah, thank you. And I will look into that. He is definitely, Philip McGee is definitely a whistleblower. Colonel? What?

1:16:17 I'll finish your thought, and I found the Joseph Burkholder Smith stuff, so do you want me to let you know? Go ahead. So he actually resigns from the CIA in 73, right when Shackley got kicked out of Southeast Asia. Miguel Nazarajaro was the Mexican real high operative in their DFS, which is their version of a combined CIA and FBI. That's why there was an association there. But Burkholder Smith wrote a book in 1976. He wrote a memoir called...

1:16:46 Portrait of a Cold Warrior, Second Thoughts of a Top CIA Agent. And that's where he did all those confessions about the Argentina stuff. Oh. So that is a book to put on our list. I have it somewhere, probably down in the basement. What was it called? A Portrait of a Cold War Warrior? It is called, oops, bear with me, Portrait of a Cold Warrior, Second Thoughts of a Top CIA Agent. I might have that. I'll go out there and look.

1:17:15 Yeah, he was in the service for about 22 to 25 years, and he ended up being very critical of the CIA because they were a little amateur-esque, according to him. He was stationed in Far East. He started with the Philippines, ended up in Singapore. Okay. Yeah, of course. Ended up in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia before finishing in Argentina, Mexico. So he was a drug operator. If you say so.

1:17:43 You can't be in the Philippines and the Southeast Asia during that time without being one in the CIA. Oh, I believe he's innocent until proven guilty. No, I'm kidding, obviously. And then there is talk about here, there's notes about Bay of Pigs and stuff like that. But that's the book where I got that from. And again, it was very early on my understanding of just how rotten the CIA was, was that book. So put it on your list if you don't have it. Okay. All right.

1:18:14 Who else? Illini, go ahead. Colonel, are we entertaining conversations about Patrick Byrne right now? Sure, go ahead. Okay. I'm going to press you a little bit on this one, because on the one hand, I think you have a really good point. Patrick Byrne is saying that two pieces of sort, two executable files are fundamentally similar in their operation, but they're compiled in different languages. And, I mean, this guy founded...

1:18:44 you know technology startup overstock i know so he would he would know that he would know better than to say something like that which which tells me that like number one i'm not even sure if he wrote that part of this um and there seems to be on the other hand how do you assess the fact that you know he he um he got fired you know as ceo of overstock he lost his job for coming out like 10 years ago

1:19:14 And saying that Hillary Clinton was part of Operation Snowflake. And, you know, the FBI was going to try to frame Hillary and all this stuff. And he gets kicked out of Overstock over that, even though, you know, he's nearly a majority shareholder. And then, you know, he winds up, you know, on the receiving end of a prosecution over a six, I think, for bringing some people out there. The Department of Justice did prosecute him. So.

1:19:46 There does seem to be some retaliation going on, that's all. And let me just preface what I'm about to say. I don't think, I don't want to address Patrick Burns' previous history because I've not researched it. I mean, I do know everything that you just said, but all I'm doing.

1:20:20 is assessing his current position and what he is currently saying. And basically he has admitted, number one, he's CIA. And number two, that he basically financed not only the quote unquote investigation that was done, but the publishing of this book. And going through this book,

1:20:51 There is massive amount of propaganda that a normal person of not inside of an investigative body has no ability to prove that it's true or false. And there's not a single footnote in the entire book.

1:21:18 So there's no references. There's no sources. You have the entire story is based on anonymous sources that are not named in the book. The names that they do use all have very interesting, like one of their attorneys being Jerry Nadler's son, and known the facts that are in there can be.

1:21:49 within five seconds of doing a search on the internet can be disproven. And so if you're paying for a book to be produced that has salacious information and accusations of connections that some are provably false, others can't be proven one way or the other, like saying Delcy Rodriguez is the son of Carlos the Jackal.

1:22:19 You make that accusation and you have literally no source documents for it. None. Not a marriage certificate, not a birth certificate, nothing. And again, if you're going to make those accusations, you have to use source documents. Put a web link on there. I agree with you there. There's no notes in the book. There's no references. I mean, when we're dealing with subjects where there's people who are...

1:22:49 you know, ruthlessly opposed to the truth getting out, you have to operate in a way that basically says, you know, I'm hanging my hat on this source and that source. And you have to basically give the trace all the way to ground on the facts. And yeah, Patrick Burns book is trust me, bro. And a lot of the facts in that, it doesn't even make sense, but I guess what I am trying to do is take a step back and try to come up with a working model.

1:23:18 for how he got here from getting fired from oversight. I've actually got some personal experience with Mr. Byrne, and I don't know if it's going to change your mind on anything, but I think you'll find it interesting. Colonel, can I spend a couple minutes? So when Patrick Byrne was Overstock's CEO, he had an issue that his stock price was being manipulated.

1:23:47 through what's called naked shorts. When you buy a stock, you give cash and you purchase the shares. When you sell a stock, you give shares and you get cash back. When you short a stock, you're selling a stock that you don't own. You've got to go out and borrow that stock and then deliver it when you buy it back. Does that make sense to everybody? What happens in the dark pools is what's called naked shorting.

1:24:14 which means you're selling a stock you don't own and have no intent of borrowing it, and you'll never replace it. You're doing it just to manipulate the price. It is a big problem in market manipulation. This was happening to Overstock.com. So Patrick, who is a brilliant guy, IQ off the charts, confers with a guy that I know out of Newport Beach, California. I'm still under NDA, under nondisclosure, so I will not give out any names.

1:24:43 beyond Patrick's. One of the original quantitative guys that was using AI to create models of investments was a guy out of Newport Beach that I'd been doing some work with and did more since. He had created an algorithm that could track the naked shorts. He gets a hold of Patrick, sells Patrick on how sound the math was.

1:25:07 Next thing you know, Patrick's working with a former head of the SEC, and they create something called Regulation Show, SHO, which curtailed about 85% to 90% of naked shorting. This is what Patrick Byrne did. He worked with someone that I know personally. This guy's a quant. Will I speak on his honorability? No, I won't vouch that he's a 100% honest actor because he has had penny stock issues.

1:25:37 because he tried to outsmart the market. But he knew Patrick very well. Fast forward a few years later, we were going to take some of his quant programs and turn it into an AI-based hedge fund and raise capital for it. Patrick Byrne was involved in those conversations. We terminated the conversation on my end before I got a chance to meet Patrick. But I knew an awful lot. I learned a lot about who he was personally. And I would say quirky, probably honest to a fault, very brilliant.

1:26:07 And I don't think that changes anything about this conversation at all. It's just an observation that this is a guy who is on the spectrum. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. I guess, you know, people like that are, are he's, he's, he's not going to understand why citations are important because he thinks he knows that maybe he, maybe it's, he thinks he knows the right answer on this one and that.

1:26:43 He doesn't need to show his work. But it isn't him showing his work. This is an author that has written numerous books. Yeah, and to Illini's point, when you're talking about people with genius level IQs, they can be very stubborn in their way of thinking. And they also don't always do the best job of talking down to someone who's only in the 99th percentile IQ. They just can't do that. They don't communicate well.

1:27:14 And they don't see the world the same way the rest of us do. Right. And it's a communication issue with Patrick a lot of times. But it's also an understanding the world around him issue. He sees it through a different, you know, one degree off center. He's a 359er. Right. Which is why he hired an author that was supposedly a notable.

1:27:43 reputable author to write this book. So the research that is in this book, Stolen Elections, is supposed to have taken Patrick Byrne's money to conduct a legitimate investigation and document it. He was paying somebody to do that.

1:28:13 So noted to both of you guys, all of the stuff that you've said, and that is attributable to Patrick Burns. When you hire somebody to take that information and then present it to the public, and you're using it to sell a narrative, the public has every right to request the documentation that you are

1:28:42 discussing with footnotes. I just want to read you guys a paragraph about why this is important. Because I have training in how you write propaganda, how you do psychological operations. When I read this paragraph, you can tell me, and I'm going to ask both Warhamster and Illini, what their opinion of this from a literary standpoint.

1:29:12 in a book that's about something as serious as stolen elections. I'm reading from page 53. People have speculated the crash, meaning the crash of that aircraft, wasn't an accident because according to rumor, Anzola was the lover of Delce Rodriguez, Jose Rodriguez's sister and minister of presidential affairs.

1:29:41 had also entered into an affair with the wife of the governor of the state of Barada, Hugo Chavez's close confidant and head of the cartel de la Sol, Cabello, pictured in the upper right. So he's alleged at least two different affairs from this guy that was killed in the plane crash. And there's...

1:30:07 literally no documentation of any of this. There's not references to newspapers where it was speculated in Argentina or Venezuela that all of this was happening. In every paragraph in this book, I have went to the leading media in Argentina, and I cannot find a single thing to document that. Not anything.

1:30:35 In that paragraph, you've got two words that jumped off the page, and he said it's speculated and he used rumor. Yes. Okay, that's not journalism? Correct. But at least they are identifying it. That's my point. Yeah, there's no source. Yeah, absolutely unsourced or undocumented. Not only is it not sourced, you cannot even find the allegation in Venezuela.

1:31:04 We know for a fact that false rumors were inserted into the election integrity movement immediately after the stolen election. We had things like Sidney Powell, some of the stuff that she actually chased down. That was completely nefarious. We saw what happened with Mike Lindell's big symposium. We know that there were and are bad actors in there.

1:31:31 Patrick Byrne was in touch with. So to assume that his information is going to be 100 percent accurate, you know, that would be irresponsible. But some of it is going to be. I happen to agree with the colonel that we're not going to find out that Venezuela has been manipulating 78 elections around the world. You know, we know the CIA has overturned more elections than that. And they probably if that software was being used as badly as we think it might have been.

1:32:01 It was not Venezuela involved. It was the CIA. That being said, I think you're going to find that there are going to be Venezuelan fingerprints and Chinese fingerprints all over a lot of this stuff, especially the software. And that's where our dinner bet is. Yeah, so I think that Venezuela expats, obviously the people that were involved in Smartmatic, but the association of.

1:32:29 people that are residing in the United States that left immediately after Chavez came to power in Venezuela, setting up an election interference company called Smartmatic. And then broad brushing that to paint the entire Venezuelan government with that same brush is just a bridge too far if you don't have concrete evidence.

1:32:55 yet to see it in this book. Well, it is. At the same time, we don't eliminate the possibility that these Venezuelan expats are still in contact with some of the power brokers in Venezuela, including the cartels. So to me, it's more of a, you know, this is not a black-white issue. It's always been more complex than everything's Venezuela's fault. It's all smartmatic. And that's the problem. That's what the Patrick Byrne case

1:33:18 What he's making is that now we got rid of Maduro, we're going to have clean elections and nothing could be further from the truth. Oh, no. He wants to get rid of Delcy Rodriguez, too, because she's a bad actor, too. Probably. They probably all are. But that's my whole point. You're saying probably. Until you give me some facts, you're not going to sway me that that's even true. Yeah, I'm not trying to sway you. I know. I know you're not. I'm saying it's going to be a lot more nuanced.

1:33:48 And we're going to find more Chinese influence on this if we ever get to the bottom of it and less Venezuelan. But these Venezuelans probably aren't completely cut off from the Maduro regime. I mean, they're still in touch with their people back home. That's kind of the way it works with expats. Well, no, no, no. Now, this is my area. So they're not in touch with the Venezuelan.

1:34:17 current government they're in contact with the relics of the Perez government because all of the nefarious shit as far as the cartels the drug trafficking the money laundering happened under

1:34:34 the Perez government in Venezuela. Now, am I saying Chavez government was crystal clean? No, I'm not saying that. But I am saying that in the case, just like in Cuba with the Cuban expat community in Miami, the people that came over after Batista was overthrown are...

1:34:57 the mafia-associated, CIA-associated people that are resettled in Miami that goes on to do nefarious things. The majority of them, while they did have infiltrators throughout Castro's government, they never dealt directly with Castro's government. And that is the same with Venezuela. With the research that I've done thus far is,

1:35:26 The expats that came over in the immediate aftermath of Chavez getting elected were the CIA adjacent corrupt drug trafficking people during the Perez administration. And the ranks of those people inside the government.

1:35:47 were pretty cleaned out in the first four years of the Chavez government. So I am not saying that the Venezuelan expats don't have contacts in Venezuela because they have family there. I am saying that they have virtually no contact since Chavez because that's the reason why they left. They are anti-Chavismo, anti-Maduro, anti-Chavez.

1:36:15 ex-packs that came over here. So I picture this, well, Grant, everything you just said is accurate. And I look at it, if you look at America, you talk about cleaning out the government, whether it be a Biden administration or a Trump, there's always the power brokers, the families with real wealth, the real power brokers behind the scenes. Those people haven't been kicked out of Venezuela. They are still people that Maduro had to deal with and stuff like that.

1:36:46 This is the money or the infrastructure behind the government. That exists in every country. These are the people I would think would still be in contact, and this is why I have such a gray area on this conversation. Yeah. Because those people aren't being talked about.

1:37:01 Well, a lot of them had their property ex-approved. We've never had anything like that happen in America. It's not like when a hostile government comes to power through a revolutionary type thing and completely purges the government and then goes after the oligarchs' possessions like the Chavez government did and nationalized a lot of their industry. They nationalized a lot of their plantations.

1:37:30 and redistributed the property to peasants. It most certainly did happen in America. You've heard of the Civil War. That's exactly what happened. Okay, well, I'm not talking, I didn't live there then. Or I didn't live here then. But you know what I'm talking about. There's a lot of pissed off people that want to attack the new version.

1:37:56 of a government when that happens. And a lot of them do that from a very cushy couch here in the United States. Yeah, most certainly. And I'm just saying it wasn't all of them. There are some that stayed in power and were able to not get their stuff confiscated. There's another class that's out there. It's just much more nuanced than most of the stories that were being... Obviously, I agree that Patrick Byrne is trying to make Venezuela the root of all evil.

1:38:25 And that's obviously not the case. It's a lot more complex. But Maduro wasn't the sole power in Venezuela. There were you know, there was other influential people that names that we don't know that are in touch with the expat community. And we don't know to what degree. Right. And again, and that's why our good friend Stephen McIntyre from Climate Audit talked about it today.

1:38:49 With Iran, we got fog of war. We still have a fog of war in Venezuela. We're getting very imperfect information. And we certainly can't trust the CIA, what they're telling Trump, or the national security. So I'm really trying to hold my fire on this whole subject, but I'm not really optimistic that we're going to get the real truth for quite some time. Well, if you go to the...

1:39:18 And I've read a whole bunch of different articles that have been written about the opposition just so that I can record the names of the people that they're saying are bad. And then you go to that global vision, which is they have some.

1:39:36 criticism of the government down there but they're wanting to hold on to their media license so they give the government a lot more favorable coverage and it's very interesting to because again I've spent probably the last four months since I read that Venezuelan coup book in looking at the different power brokers down there and it is a very interesting

1:40:06 uh setup that they have there um there's there's a new set of um power brokers that has come along um much to the chagrin because obviously a lot of the propertied people there have joined the opposition um but interestingly enough the majority of them don't put their money

1:40:29 because there has always been a large stream of money to the tune of about $1.7 billion of our taxpayers going to fund the opposition. And so it's very hard to your point, Brady, to figure out who are the real power brokers there because we have altered the landscape.

1:40:56 through USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy since 1998 and the funding of our hostile attempt to retake control of Venezuela down there. It is definitely very nuanced. I don't know where. Illini, I noticed you had your hand up, and then we'll go to Meganuk. Let's hold this thought because I was going to bring something up about Minneapolis.

1:41:26 and what we can do with the infrastructure there. Okay. Let's pass it along to Megan Newt. Megan Newt, go ahead, and then we'll go back to Renee. Let me say a quick goodnight, because I don't want to leave rudely, but thank you, everybody, for listening to my nonsense, and we'll see you all soon. Thanks. Nighty night, Warhamster. Night, Warhamster. Colonel. Yes. If I was to go to my local library, what section would I find this book in? Which book?

1:41:56 The book for Patrick Burns? Stolen Election? Mm-hmm. It should be in the fiction book, but you'd probably find it in the nonfiction section. Okay, which leads me to my second question. If that is the case, has any lawsuits ever been filed against Patrick Burns as far as this book is concerned? So the accusations are all against...

1:42:25 people that live in Venezuela. So they're free to smear them in any way they want. They don't make any accusations against Americans. Okay. Okay. So you can say whatever the hell you want, I guess. Just curious. Yeah, I know. No, I've thought about that often. If I was any of the people that were mentioned in this book with all of the salacious accusations, and I lived in America, you damn well bet I would sue them. But they carefully...

1:42:59 make sure that the people that they propagandize are not here. You know, and I hate that I keep harping on this, but it's just so blatantly obvious to me, the agenda in this book, when they, you know, to say that General Franks was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he was U.S. Central Command, you know,

1:43:26 General Franks is not going to sue them for that. That would have been a promotion for him in prestige as opposed to rank. But they're very, very careful. I've not read the last couple of chapters yet, but they're very, very careful about not slandering anybody that resides in the United States. Okay, so that is why I asked that question. I know, yeah. I have listened to Patrick Byrne.

1:43:55 in his little clips on X and some podcasters. And I'm always left with a question. Really? And so that's why I want to, I was wanting to clarify my questions earlier. Thank you very much again. Appreciate it. Sure. And one of the most telling things, and it's, I've talked to King Khan about this offline. One of the most telling things is.

1:44:23 The only podcast that Patrick Burns could have went on that would have pushed back on the mainstream narrative that they're selling was King Khan and Ash's Why We Vote. And he literally canceled as they were going on the air. So he has never been questioned by someone who knows what we know. And that was also very telling to me. Renee, go ahead.

1:44:52 Yes, I agree with you of cryptic Patrick. And I watched your show with CanCon and Alpha last night, and it kind of had me very frustrated because I'm more, I guess I would say what CanCon said, our team, our side.

1:45:19 What I found very interesting, I mean, okay, I understand Alpha, if you all didn't see the show, he's not really spilling the beans or anything, but he's kind of projecting a 5G warfare and it's part of the plan and things will eventually come out, but you got to be the 5G and the information and yada, yada. But it's kind of like, my gosh, it's like we're in a game of a game of a game and it's frustrating. I'm tired.

1:45:50 I'm tired of this. I would like some truth and transparency. But funnily enough, Colonel, going back to the Delce Rodriguez, and you mentioned her in this conversation. Last night, while I was watching that show, that Rumble show, there was an audience member in the chat because the Whistle Boys talk about Olivetti, and I think I've brought that up before.

1:46:19 And Olivetti is an Italian typewriter, and the whistleboys bring up that there is some connection to the operating system, something like that, to the Smartmatic. I'm not sure whether it's true or not. I don't know. But anyway, the person in the chat said, oh, there's an Olivetti plant in Pennsylvania.

1:46:38 So I looked up that plant. It's a fantastic, amazing architectural building. But it's an Olivetti Underwood plant. And I was like, well, who's Underwood? Well, Underwood was an American typewriter company. That I learned to type on, by the way. Interesting. Well, do you know, and I put it in the pill so you all can put on your gladiator glasses.

1:47:04 and look up Underwood and what they did besides typewriters. Very interesting. And not only in their history, they talk about famous people who used the Underwood typewriter. And lo and behold, one of the authors who typed a famous story on the Underwood typewriter

1:47:31 wrote the story sorry i have to uh because i want to get it correct it was um notable users sorry hang on hang with me um oh dang popular media he wrote the story the day of the jackal and so i thought well that's coincidence because day of the jackal that reminds me of carlos carlos the jackal and by gosh um laura logan complains that delce rodriguez

1:48:01 Her stepfather or family connection is Carlos the Jackal. So, of course, then I go look up Carlos the Jackal. And if you put your Gladio glasses on and you look at his timeline, and I know it's Wikipedia, Schmickipedia, and it may be not fully true. But with Gladio glasses on, you kind of take bits and pieces and then you start looking up that stuff, right? And his whole story, I think he was...

1:48:30 trained at the time, in my opinion, just now, that he, you know, was a nationalist and he fought against the CIA. Because if you look in his timeline and story, I think he was even trained in Cuba to defend the people of Venezuela and stuff. So these people, I don't know if they're spinning stories. I noticed that myself, Renee, when I first heard them make that accusation.

1:49:00 I read his story, and it does sound exactly like that. Okay, cool, cool. So, yeah, it's all over the place, but I feel, you know, propaganda due, tres, cuatro, you know, a lot of propaganda going on here. I'm still at the point, and I say this in all honesty. I mean, I'm not saying it to be combative or anything.

1:49:29 If somebody can make this make sense, I want them to do so. If you're telling me that the current government, which they are, of Venezuela is altering elections around the world, the current government, and the CIA is in bed with them doing that,

1:49:56 then why is the CIA trying to overthrow the current government all the way back to Chavez? And that was my question. And I get a dissertation from Alpha, as you say, about all of the 5D things. And when I ask them, you didn't answer my question. Can you explain to me?

1:50:18 why they're doing that. Are you saying that the attempted overthrows and the $1.7 billion that USAID and National Endowment for Democracy put into overthrowing the Chavez and now the Maduro regime was for shits and grins and it was just all fake, kayfabe garbage?

1:50:45 No, I'm sorry. I don't believe that. People died. I don't believe that at all. They honestly tried to overthrow the government. And then you want me to believe that at the same time, they're using that government to control elections all over the world. Those two things don't make sense. And if someone can make them make sense to me, then I will change my mind. But I did notice in the comments,

1:51:13 last night on the show, when I kept asking Alpha after his, you know, five minute dissertation on every time I asked him that question, somebody called me Colonel Karen. And I'm like, dude, that's not going to, number one, it doesn't answer the question. And number two, I don't care. I need somebody to answer that question. I need things to logically make sense.

1:51:42 And when they logically don't make sense, I'm going to dig a little deeper. And in this book, every time I dig a little deeper, I find another factual error that they had to have known. And like Ash said, why if you're touting the fact that you have this great attorney representing your group of whistleboys,

1:52:07 by the name of whatever it was, Michael Nadler, why wouldn't you tell us that's Jerry Nadler's son? Why would you leave that out? It's not like they didn't know. They know, but they know it's not going to further the narrative because then somebody's gonna go, oh, you're using Jerry Nadler's son? Are you sure that's like the best place or the best lawyer that you could hire? Who, by the way, had already sent an innocent guy to jail.

1:52:37 on a backdated Interpol. Because, of course, if you look up that guy, you're going to find he's the guy that convicted Alex Saab. And we've already went through that whole story. And that whole thing was a CIA operation. So, Illini, go ahead. It's a complicated game. And you can kind of do the same thing with Marco Rubio, too, who comes from the Cuban anti-communist community of Miami, if I recall correctly. Yes.

1:53:05 But we assume that he's a good guy who got appointed by Trump. Or at the very least, you can kind of file him in the cooperating witness category. That's where I would put him. And that may be the case with Michael Nadler, for all we know. There may be these cooperating witnesses out there that they're going to try to avoid drawing too much attention to.

1:53:32 And that they're, you know, answers are going to be a little bit awkward, ambiguous, and not necessarily making sense. But if you're willing to have a slightly, I mean, yeah, it's what we're doing is you're playing, you know, three dimensional, four dimensional chess, you know, under uncertainty, right? Right. And there's all these different models out there. One of the potential models is this cooperating witness model.

1:53:59 where for whatever reason, Trump can't, you know, tip off the other side yet as to what's going on. And they've got, they're going to give you weird and ambiguous answers to, you know, thinking people out there, but, you know, press them on it. You know, not too hard, but, but, you know, I...

1:54:23 No, I agree with you completely. But if those people that are putting out these conflicting narratives won't allow themselves to be pushed back on even slightly, it makes them less legitimate in my eyes. It's a fair point. You blacked out, Illini. It's a fair point. And we obviously can't...

1:54:57 We can't just sort of grant them everything on there. Which is my point. I pin two things to the nest. Your Operation Gladio model, Colonel, seems to be making some traction. Some of this was also Millie Weaver's and Walter Kurtz's prior reporting on some of the Soros Sunrise groups. But Kash Patel recently...

1:55:21 came out and said that they think that these protests are being funded by outside groups. And the same night that he came out and said that, Jack Tron, an associate of Walter Curt, who we referenced there, basically says that they came into a call by Arabella Advisors, which is influenced by Soros, Obama, and the Democrats.

1:55:48 about some more of their paid protest activities. It seems like the federal government is ready to move on this one. I know that there's a lot of people on our side who are pushing for the Insurrection Act. Since we're two or three steps ahead of the rest of everybody, although I'll bet you that Kash Patel is like 20 steps ahead of us.

1:56:13 And maybe, for all I know, maybe Alpha Warrior's a couple steps ahead, maybe Walter Kurtz a couple steps ahead, and they're withholding information that's important about cooperating witnesses and stuff like that under that model. They might know those aspects that we don't. But the one thing that we should push for is, guys, before you, you know, unleash the Insurrection Act, you know, you have this ability called, you know, a RICO civil freeze hearing.

1:56:40 which, you know, Rudolf Giuliani famously almost used against Drexel Burnham back in 1990. They can basically go in and shut down everybody's bank account who's associated with this, and they can do it subject to due process, that they get in front of a judge that they think is honest. They go in there, they show by preponderance of the evidence that this organization is racketeering influence, which seems to be pretty clear here that there's

1:57:10 you know, at least RICO liability. And then they can shut everything down. You don't have to arrest anybody, but everybody's bank account stops working. And poor Alex Soros, you know, is going to have trouble making the maintenance payments on his penthouse while all that's going on. And that would seem to at least shut down the paid protests. And then if they really need to, they can still go out and use the Insurrection Act.

1:57:37 I just hope that somebody's going to push back on them and say, look, we really like the Constitution. We really like habeas corpus. You got to show us more. And the civil right go hearing would kind of be their opportunity also to get held accountable and to come out with their evidence and to show everybody what's going on. And the Democrats are getting forced to retaliate and make noises. Are you telling me that they can't shut your bank account down just because they want to, like they did with everybody after the.

1:58:07 2020 election? Well, there ought to be a legal process for it, right? I'm just teasing you. We've had a legal process for this since 1970. Yeah, I know, but that would be my suggestion for how Trump goes out. He makes this case. The Democrats are going to freak out. They're going to retaliate.

1:58:27 They're going to say, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. This is political retaliation. And then everybody on our side just goes around waving photos of Donald Trump and his mug shots and say, yeah, yeah, there is – look, whatever we're doing is a fraction. They debanked True Social with none of that. Yeah. They closed all of their bank accounts. It was total bullshit.

1:58:58 Well, what's hilarious is force them to come back after you do it legally and scream about doing it legally when they did it to every one of us illegally because they're in bed with the banks. I would love that. I would love that visual. If he does it that way, he's going to win over the libertarians, the independents, and he's going to get a majority of the vote. Yep.

1:59:30 And then Democrats, if they're not playing by the rules, are sitting dead in the water for the 2024 – the 2026 elections in November. Yes. Their normal operating process they've been counting on and planning on is not going to be there for them. Maybe Trump does have to get into the Insurrection Act to prosecute people to get – to have a reasonable process here.

2:00:00 a civil right go hearing you know we should try to push them that this really ought to be the first step and if people are going on spaces it's a way to you know hold you know the people who are who are really you know big trump supporters you know accountable make sure that you know we keep the process honest and that we've got a way out of this at the very end of it and i i do think

2:00:24 That is the one kudos I think everybody has to give is operating inside of the law through all of this and not just blowing off crazy judges. They instantly appeal them. They have been very careful about dotting I's and crossing T's throughout this entire process, much to the chagrin of everybody on our side because they want instant justice.

2:00:52 There does appear to be an honest effort to do it by the book so that none of it can be undone, to your point. I agree with you. But I would love the optics of actively, legally shutting down their bank accounts and then let them scream that that's not right to do that after they did it illegally.

2:01:20 through their friends at all of the major banks. I'd love it. Absolutely, Colonel. Well, that's my point on it. Kudos to you for exposing the Gladio model, waking people up about it. It at least maybe hopefully keeps us a step or two ahead and hopefully move the needle a little bit on the Constitution or civil liberties.

2:01:48 Yeah, isn't it just, I just, every day I get up and I am so thankful that not only have we done this, but that it's been such a collective effort. I was just talking to someone about being able to go down and meet Illini because I feel like this is,

2:02:18 part of my family now with SR and Bridget and everybody that I've met through this whole alpha, CanCon, Ash, I've met all of them. I feel like this information has grounded us and given us an ability to see things much differently than we saw them three years ago.

2:02:48 I can't imagine living through the last three years without this information. It has been very eye-opening, very troubling to me in so many ways. But at the same time, it's made me so optimistic, especially with what I see going on in the world in the form of Trump's executive orders. It does clearly...

2:03:17 indicate to me that he's like a line I just pointed out. They're like 20 steps ahead of us. And I'm very cautious, although I do push back, but I'm very cautious in how I push back because we obviously don't have all of the pieces. And a couple of weeks will go by and what you thought was kind of weird ends up making sense because of three other things that has happened in the interim.

2:03:46 And I like to be the person that's walking behind, kind of picking up all the pieces and putting them in the dustbin. Because I feel like that's what our role is. But I think we're able to collect those pieces and create a completely different puzzle with our information that we've learned through this long journey together. So anyway, all right, it's Friday.

2:04:16 Um, so you guys, there will be a podcast I'm recording tomorrow morning with Tommy Podcast again with, um, um, General, um, Blaine and Em. Um, and it will probably be, he usually releases them a couple of hours after we record them. So I will post it tomorrow whenever it's available on my timeline. I love talking to them.

2:04:45 They're big brain people. And the conversation's always a very lively conversation. So I will post that tomorrow. I do have a couple of articles. And I, oh, Renee, I had told her from the video that I did before, Delashay is such a big piece of Operation Gladio. And we'd already been on for,

2:05:15 over an hour, that I wanted to do a segment on Delachey by himself because he's such an integral player in Operation Gladio. And so I'll try to get that together this weekend because he's in like probably 15 of my books. Great. Thank you. I appreciate that. And hey, Colonel, I've tried looking for, sorry for interrupting, for the last Tommy's podcast you did, he's on YouTube, right?

2:05:44 He's on, I think he's on Rumble too. I don't know. Okay, because I couldn't find it. Would you mind posting it again, please? Or did you post it? I usually repost it. They're on his timeline. Okay, I tried looking for it. Maybe I mis... I'll go try to find it. I'll look again. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I enjoy those shows. They are super smarty pants. They are super smarty pants. Yeah, even though EM stood us up last time.

2:06:14 Anyway, he promises that he'll be there tomorrow. All right, you guys have a wonderful weekend. And we will be back to continue our book on Monday. And in the meantime, have a nice weekend. Take care.

Entities here

Allen Dulles50 CIA34 Joseph McCarthy25 Roy Cohn25 Venezuela18 Patrick Byrne18 Washington, D.C.18 Dwight D. Eisenhower16 Richard Nixon15 U.S. State Department10 Joseph Smith9 Donald Trump8 Hugo Chavez8 Mexico8 David Shine8 Republican Party7 Eleanor Dulles7 J. Edgar Hoover7 Delcy Rodríguez7 Nicolás Maduro6 Eastern Soviet Union6 Argentina6 William P. Bundy6 State Department Purge6 Overstock.com5 Charles E. Bohlen5 Operation Gladio5 Stolen Elections5 John J. McCloy5 United States4 Ilich Ramírez Sánchez4 1968 United States presidential election4 Philip Agee4 Madison, Wisconsin3 Olivetti3 Clayton L. Bissell3 Ronald Reagan3 George Soros3 Alger Hiss3 Miami3

Claims made here

Roberto San Roman member_of Brigade 2506 documented ▶ 0:31

“one of the Cuban exiles is talking to the CIA and it says, this is from a memorandum in a CIA file on Roberto Perez San Roman. In his 23 January meeting,…”

Roberto San Roman spied_on CIA documented ▶ 0:59

“with Robert Kennedy, Perez remarked that he had discussed brigade problems, meaning 2506 Brigade in general, with the writer of Office of Security, which is a CIA, whom he apparently identified as his…”

Robert Morrow member_of CIA host_asserted ▶ 1:55

“Because he was the Cuban exile's handler. And, not surprising to anybody in our audience, Robert Marani was an investment banker in Houston. That's so funny. Didn't we, and I know sometimes the names …”

Pope Pius XII funded Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 3:21

“43-year-old Senator Joseph McCarthy married his office aide, a 29-year-old former college beauty queen named Jean Kerr, with great pomp and ceremony at St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington, D.C. Pope…”

Joseph McCarthy married Jean Kerr documented ▶ 3:21

Joseph McCarthy financed_via Eugene Biggers host_asserted ▶ 4:53

“In truth, he never lost his taste for the swag of politics. One of his wedding gifts was a pink Cadillac presented to him, ironically, by a Houston businessman who shared his militant anti-communist m…”

J. Edgar Hoover member_of Republican Party host_asserted ▶ 5:27

“By 1953, McCarthy's anti-red witch hunt was in full blaze, torching the careers of distinguished senators, statesmen, and even beginning to flicker ominously outside the White House itself. The FBI's …”

J. Edgar Hoover covered_up Joseph McCarthy host_asserted ▶ 7:57

“He once assaulted Drew Pearson in a cloakroom of an exclusive club, pinning the muckrakers' arms behind him and kneeing him in the balls. Vicious payback for all the columns Pearson had written about …”

Harry S. Truman founded French Communist Party host_asserted ▶ 9:27

“Truman imposed a loyalty test on federal employees and created an extensive surveillance apparatus to go with it, which turned up few real security risk. He also shredded the Bill of Rights by unleash…”

Richard Nixon member_of Republican Party documented ▶ 10:55

“unquote, Eisenhower stood his ground. I've been booed before. But when it came time to speak, Eisenhower buckled and never said a word. The GOP campaign in 1952 thoroughly embraced McCarthyism. Nixon …”

Joseph McCarthy targeted_for_regime_change U.S. State Department documented ▶ 12:17

“It first had to secure the Capitol when the dangerous senator continued to make strong men cower. During the first year of Eisenhower's presidency, McCarthy would boldly target the three institutions …”

Allen Dulles member_of U.S. State Department documented ▶ 13:39

“As the brothers assumed their positions in the Eisenhower government, they brought with them a unique working chemistry, one that had been forged from the time they had shared their task on the Lake O…”

Allen Dulles member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 14:36

“but tried to avoid either the appearance or actions that could justify any criticism. It was very important to Allen that people not think he got his CIA position because of his brother. You see, he t…”

Dwight D. Eisenhower appointed Allen Dulles book_quoted ▶ 14:36

Allen Dulles funded BND host_asserted ▶ 16:04

“the State Department's bond desk, which ran, that was the liaison to the German BND and Galen organization. Sometimes she would join her brothers at their home and she would later say, I know Foster v…”

Eleanor Dulles member_of U.S. State Department host_asserted ▶ 16:34

“in charge of the research and intelligence division in the State Department, which is the belly button for the CIA. So it was the three of them running foreign policy and action. Foster was somewhat o…”

John J. McCloy member_of U.S. State Department documented ▶ 20:05

“as a hotbed of pansies, pointed head intellectual, parlor room pinkos, and other soft types that were vulnerable to communism. In the beginning, Foster thought McCarthy's reign of terror could be usef…”

John J. McCloy removed_from_power John Carter Vincent documented ▶ 21:35

“Most of its victims were highly competent, experienced members of the Foreign Service whose policy difference with the new Dulles regime simply rendered them incompatible for service. A number of thes…”

John J. McCloy removed_from_power John Paton Davies Jr. documented ▶ 21:35

Allen Dulles removed_from_power George F. Kennan documented ▶ 22:05

“China lobby group, by honestly evaluating why communist revolutionary Mao had defeated the drug kingpin, Chiang Kai-shek. You're not allowed to talk about facts. The civil service apparatus was suppos…”

Richard Nixon funded Joseph McCarthy book_quoted ▶ 26:19

“and served as an intelligence link among the White House, the CIA, and Henry Luce's media empire, advised the president to launch an all-out attack on McCarthy. But Nixon, who thought of McCarthy as a…”

Dwight D. Eisenhower appointed Charles E. Bohlen documented ▶ 29:08

“I mean, he realized the subtleties of communist penetration and all that, but he didn't go along with a sort of blanket condemnation of people. The truth, however, is that Alan Dulles' groveling effor…”

Joseph McCarthy targeted_for_regime_change Charles E. Bohlen documented ▶ 29:35

“To be his ambassador to the Soviet Union, McCarthy inevitably detected something amiss, a hint of homosexuality somewhere in his family. It turned out that the allegations involved his brother-in-law.…”

Roy Cohn recruited David Shine documented ▶ 31:36

“He had installed his 26-year-old playmate, a golden boy with no particular credentials, named David Shine, on his staff. So Roy Cohn, a noted homosexual, employed the guy that he's sleeping with on hi…”

Joseph McCarthy carried_out_attack Voice of America documented ▶ 32:35

“McCarthy next went after the Voice of America, the State Department's Cold War propaganda arm, which of course is the CIA front. It was supposedly a hotbed of communist infestation. By April, 830 of t…”

Roy Cohn carried_out_attack Voice of America documented ▶ 32:35

Joseph McCarthy carried_out_attack CIA documented ▶ 34:50

“when the most powerful men in the Capitol lived in fear of being served subpoenas by a drunken senator, when even John Foster Dulles trembled before McCarthy's brute force. It would take Foster's iron…”

William P. Bundy member_of Skull and Bones documented ▶ 35:18

“His usual imprecise way that he possessed tons of evidence that revealed widespread communist infiltration of the CIA. McCarthy's prime suspect was Ivy League educated CIA analyst William Bundy, whose…”

William P. Bundy member_of CIA documented ▶ 35:18

William P. Bundy funded Alger Hiss documented ▶ 36:16

“his Alger Hiss. And in fact, one of the main pieces of incriminating evidence he waved against him was that Bundy had contributed $400 to Alger Hiss' defense fund. But the Bundys were solid members of…”

J. Edgar Hoover spied_on Allen Dulles documented ▶ 36:45

“Taking on McCarthy at the height of his power was a daunting task, even for the director of the CIA. Dulles knew that, despite J. Edgar Hoover's growing doubts about McCarthy, the FBI still fed him a …”

J. Edgar Hoover spied_on Robert Amory Jr. host_asserted ▶ 37:12

“Hoover even suspected Dulles of secret communist leanings, a delusion as fantastic as any of McCarthy's wild claims. At least one high-ranking CIA official, Robert Amory, the agency's top intelligence…”

CIA spied_on J. Edgar Hoover documented ▶ 37:12

James Jesus Angleton spied_on J. Edgar Hoover host_asserted ▶ 37:42

“James Angleton liked to say that any intelligence service that doesn't keep a close eye on its own government wasn't worth its own salt. Penetration begins at home, he said. The CIA counterintelligenc…”

Allen Dulles spied_on Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 38:11

“was homosexual as well. Dulles' wisecracking mistress, Mary Bancroft, tried to call the FBI director, the Virgin Mary, in pants. Dulles compiled even more scandalous files on Joe McCarthy's sex life. …”

Hank Greenspun exposed Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 38:38

“near Grand Central Station, as well as gay hideaways in Milwaukee. Drew Pearson got wind of stories, but was never able to get any proof to run them. But the less discriminating Hank Greenspun, editor…”

Walter Trohan exposed Joseph McCarthy host_asserted ▶ 40:24

“about McCarthy's habit of drunkenly groping young girls. The story were so widespread that they became common knowledge at the Capitol, according to one FBI chronicler. Walter Trohan, Washington's bur…”

CIA exposed Joseph McCarthy host_asserted ▶ 40:54

“and cry, rape, I don't know. The communist opposition might have missed the opportunity, but the CIA was clearly prepared to leak stories about McCarthy's behavior, stories so sordid that they would d…”

Allen Dulles protected William P. Bundy documented ▶ 41:22

“to the CIA's power struggle with McCarthy, one that had largely been hidden from the public, but would eventually erupt in the Senate hearings. But the public witnessed, was fascinating enough, a clas…”

Joseph McCarthy carried_out_attack Allen Dulles documented ▶ 42:17

“When a subpoena arrived for him to go, the CIA director was unfazed. Allen Dulles just took it and gave it to somebody. I wanted it for posterity, but no one ever found it again. On July 9th, 1953, an…”

Joe Alsop exposed Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 44:12

“that he once declared that it was his patriotic duty to carry its water, announced that Senator Joseph McCarthy had suffered his first total unmitigated, unqualified defeat, having allowed McCarthy to…”

Allen Dulles protected Cord Meyer documented ▶ 46:10

“Were the backbone of the Republicans, he recognized that many of the most passionate Cold War warriors were ex-communists and liberals who not only had firsthand knowledge of the bare-knuckle Communis…”

Horace Craig ordered_assassination_of Joseph McCarthy host_asserted ▶ 48:31

“who had worked for C.D. Jackson in the White House, stunned the subcommittee by recounting a conversation he had had the previous year with a CIA employee by the name of Horace Craig. As the two men w…”

Richard Nixon protected Ezra Taft Benson documented ▶ 49:21

“A month later, in August of 53, when McCarthy took aim at Reds in the Agricultural Department of all places, Nixon advised Agricultural Secretary Ezra Taft Benson to stand firm, like Alan Dulles, if M…”

Joseph McCarthy carried_out_attack Ralph Zwicker documented ▶ 49:51

“Like Foster Dulles, the spineless army secretary, a former textile executive by the name of Robert 10 Brock Stevens, had done everything he could to appease McCarthy. But the senator had only grown mo…”

Roy Cohn protected David Shine documented ▶ 50:47

“Was drafted into the Army in October of 53, McCarthy's point man began frantically pulling strings on his behalf. Assigned to Fort Dix in New Jersey for basic training, Shine was showered with special…”

John P. Cabot Lodge exposed Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 52:13

“Cabot said. The following month, the president authorized Lodge to ask for the publication of a damning report that the Army had been secretly compiling on numerous ways that McCarthy and Cohn had bul…”

Joseph N. Welch exposed Joseph McCarthy documented ▶ 53:08

“By the time the Army's distinguished Boston attorney, Joseph Nye Welch, uttered his devastating and instantly rememberable line, have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you no decency? The Americ…”

Roy Cohn member_of George Steinbrenner documented ▶ 58:48

“in the espionage trial of the Rosenbergs. Cone direct examination of Ethel's brother, David Greenglass, produced testimony that was central to their conviction. And then it has a whole thing about his…”

Roy Cohn recruited David Greenglass documented ▶ 58:48

Roy Cohn member_of Aristotle Onassis documented ▶ 59:20

“Onassis, he had a lot of mafia customers. And that's where, if you go back to our book that we did from Whitney Webb, she talks about him a lot and his mafia connections, lots of mafia connections. To…”

Roy Cohn member_of Joseph Salerno documented ▶ 59:20

Roy Cohn member_of Carmine Galante documented ▶ 59:20

Roy Cohn member_of John Gotti Jr. documented ▶ 59:20

Roy Cohn member_of Mario DeCarlo documented ▶ 59:20

Roy Cohn member_of Stephen Rubell documented ▶ 59:50

“Studio 54 owners Stephen Rubell and Ian Schrager. He was the attorney for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York. And that got into that Cardinal Spellman. And he was intimately involved in...…”

Roy Cohn member_of Ian Schrager documented ▶ 59:50

Roy Cohn member_of Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York documented ▶ 59:50

Roy Cohn member_of Covenant House documented ▶ 1:00:15

“I'm not going to remember the names. I don't know if you can find it, Bridget, but there was the child organization that was in New York that was... Covenant House? Covenant House. Yes. Thank you, Ill…”

Roy Cohn member_of Francis Spellman documented ▶ 1:00:15

Roy Cohn member_of Richard DuPont documented ▶ 1:00:44

“Very, very shady. It says that he also was, let's see, had the business owner, Richard DuPont, as a, let's see, business owner, Richard DuPont. DuPont, then 40.…”

Roy Cohn member_of Alan Dershowitz documented ▶ 1:01:36

“clients included Alan Dershowitz, which he called Cohn the quintessential fixer. In 1960, Robert Morgenthau, the U.S. attorney in the Southern District, indicted Cohn three times in six years for vari…”

Robert Morgenthau carried_out_attack Roy Cohn documented ▶ 1:01:36

Roy Cohn carried_out_attack United Dye and Chemical Corporation documented ▶ 1:02:06

“were indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice, alleging that they had obstructed a federal investigation into allegations that Samuel Garfield and others defrauded United Dye and Chemical Corpo…”

Roy Cohn funded John Lee Anderson host_asserted ▶ 1:02:36

“Where I came across him in Gladio was the Western Goals Foundation because basically that too was a CIA front. He was on the board of directors there. Let's see. I love this part. Cohn worked on the 1…”

Roy Cohn recruited Roger Stone host_asserted ▶ 1:02:36

Roy Cohn member_of Western Goals host_asserted ▶ 1:02:36

Roy Cohn paid Rupert Murdoch host_asserted ▶ 1:03:39

“Rupert Murdoch was a client and clone repeatedly pressured President Reagan to further Murdoch's interest. He is credited with introducing Trump and Murdoch in the mid 1970s. And he also represented T…”

Roy Cohn recruited Donald Trump host_asserted ▶ 1:03:39

Roy Cohn member_of Tammany Hall speculative ▶ 1:04:43

“were hamster today, is if Cone came from a family of, you know, New York County, New York judges, that means that that family, based on what you guys are saying today, probably would have had to have …”

Allen Dulles recruited Richard Nixon book_quoted ▶ 1:05:42

“fascinating here, it's a fascinating connection to this whole story, is Alan Dulles reached out to him to help him defend William Bundy when McCarthy came after him. And so you see the Nixon-Dulles co…”

Richard Nixon member_of Heroin Committee host_asserted ▶ 1:06:14

“basically put a top to this whole McCarthyism thing and basically stopping it. And ultimately, of course, you know, resulting in, you know, the end of McCarthy in a lot of ways. But Dulles, you know, …”

Richard Nixon recruited Greek junta speculative ▶ 1:06:44

“in the late 1940s where he gives his take on the whole thing. But as part of it, the fascinating cross-reference is he flies on a cargo plane out to, you know, the wilderness, out to the mountains in …”

Richard Marcinko reassigned Argentina book_quoted ▶ 1:09:12

“But, you know, when Shackley gets back to the Western Hemisphere, he felt like he was having to interview for his own job to keep it. And what they did is they flew him from Mexico down to Argentina. …”

Joseph Smith member_of Bay of Pigs book_quoted ▶ 1:11:37

“I'm trying to remember what that story is, but wasn't that the prince of, what, Indonesia or something? I think so. If only I had a machine on my desk that could look that guy up real quick. Okay, so …”

Patrick Byrne removed_from_power Overstock.com host_asserted ▶ 1:18:44

“you know technology startup overstock i know so he would he would know that he would know better than to say something like that which which tells me that like number one i'm not even sure if he wrote…”

U.S. Department of Justice targeted_for_regime_change Patrick Byrne host_asserted ▶ 1:19:14

“And saying that Hillary Clinton was part of Operation Snowflake. And, you know, the FBI was going to try to frame Hillary and all this stuff. And he gets kicked out of Overstock over that, even though…”

Patrick Byrne funded Stolen Elections host_asserted ▶ 1:20:20

“is assessing his current position and what he is currently saying. And basically he has admitted, number one, he's CIA. And number two, that he basically financed not only the quote unquote investigat…”

Delcy Rodríguez member_of Venezuela host_asserted ▶ 1:29:12

“in a book that's about something as serious as stolen elections. I'm reading from page 53. People have speculated the crash, meaning the crash of that aircraft, wasn't an accident because according to…”

Diosdado Cabello member_of Venezuela host_asserted ▶ 1:29:41

“had also entered into an affair with the wife of the governor of the state of Barada, Hugo Chavez's close confidant and head of the cartel de la Sol, Cabello, pictured in the upper right. So he's alle…”

Smartmatic funded Venezuela host_asserted ▶ 1:32:29

“people that are residing in the United States that left immediately after Chavez came to power in Venezuela, setting up an election interference company called Smartmatic. And then broad brushing that…”

National Endowment for Democracy attempted_coup_against Nicolás Maduro host_asserted ▶ 1:50:18

“why they're doing that. Are you saying that the attempted overthrows and the $1.7 billion that USAID and National Endowment for Democracy put into overthrowing the Chavez and now the Maduro regime was…”

USAID attempted_coup_against Nicolás Maduro host_asserted ▶ 1:50:18

National Endowment for Democracy attempted_coup_against Hugo Chavez host_asserted ▶ 1:50:18

USAID attempted_coup_against Hugo Chavez host_asserted ▶ 1:50:18

Michael Nadler covered_up Alex Saab host_asserted ▶ 1:52:37

“on a backdated Interpol. Because, of course, if you look up that guy, you're going to find he's the guy that convicted Alex Saab. And we've already went through that whole story. And that whole thing …”

Donald Trump appointed Marco Rubio host_asserted ▶ 1:53:05

“But we assume that he's a good guy who got appointed by Trump. Or at the very least, you can kind of file him in the cooperating witness category. That's where I would put him. And that may be the cas…”

Rudy Giuliani targeted_for_regime_change Drexel Burnham host_asserted ▶ 1:56:40

“which, you know, Rudolf Giuliani famously almost used against Drexel Burnham back in 1990. They can basically go in and shut down everybody's bank account who's associated with this, and they can do i…”

Delcy Rodríguez member_of Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 2:04:45

“They're big brain people. And the conversation's always a very lively conversation. So I will post that tomorrow. I do have a couple of articles. And I, oh, Renee, I had told her from the video that I…”

Delcy Rodríguez member_of Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 2:05:15

“over an hour, that I wanted to do a segment on Delachey by himself because he's such an integral player in Operation Gladio. And so I'll try to get that together this weekend because he's in like prob…”