The Colonel's Corner The Mafia, CIA & George Bush Part 2

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0:00 of one lady by the name of Kathy Whitmire. That's going to come back later too. He and his developer friends also controlled the Houston County Commissioner Court, which determines flood control policy and projects in the greater Houston area. They do road projects and stuff like that. And that's important as we get into some of the real estate deals where they were laundering money.

0:32 And it wasn't a court as in a legal court, but he basically controlled it. And they're the ones that gave approval for land development, which is the business this man is in. Michener's closest friend was U.S. Senator Lloyd Benson. And that came from many people. And keep in mind, this book is written by a Houston reporter who initially put all of these

1:05 most of all of this information in articles in the local Houston paper. And Tilley got fired when it got really interesting. They decided to let him go, which of course is what happens with all of these real investigative reporters. They lose their job. So in 1988, when Benson was running as the Democratic candidate for vice president,

1:37 and also running to retain his Senate seat just in case they lost. That's when Dukakis was running for president. Benson's senatorial campaign headquarters was in Michener's corporate headquarters. Michener would later deny ever doing any straight business with Benson, but on November 11, 1979, the Michener Corporation and two partners

2:11 purchased an apartment building in a Houston suburb from Benson for an undisclosed sum of cash and a promissory note of about $250,000. Money laundering to the politician. There were other indirect business connections between Senator Benton and Michener. Jack Tillman Trotter, Michener's close business associate,

2:42 and former chairman of Michener's flagship bank, Allied Bank of Houston, was an administrator on one of Benson's blind investment trusts while he was in office. One of Benson's investments was in the J.T. Trotter No. 2 Limited Partnership, which controlled 2,167 acres southwest of Houston.

3:13 Michener's company ended up owning a Houston savings and loan that had belonged to Benson's company. It was called Benjamin Franklin Savings. It was owned by Benson's holding company called Lincoln Consolidated, which just so happened to be an insurance company. In 1971, after Benson took office as a senator, Lincoln

3:43 sold the savings and loan to IC Industries of Chicago. In 78, the Michener Corporation bought Benjamin Franklin Savings from the Chicago entity that it was sold to, IC Industries. And that was, it says Michener sold the savings and loan in 81 before the bottom dropped out of the entire industry.

4:14 That's going to be a reoccurring theme as well. In a book called Who Will Tell the People, it reported that when Democrat presidential candidate Michael Dukakis tried to bring up the savings and loan crisis as a campaign issue against the Republicans, Benson communicated to the campaign headquarters, you don't want to go there because it was going to come back on Benson as we're going to find out.

4:43 The exact relationship between Michener and President Bush was a mystery. Michener acknowledged having known Bush for a long time, but he says he was never particularly close to him. And you're also going to find out through this book, as most criminals tell their story, like the Blandon guy in Gary Webb's book, they often don't tell the truth. And Michener is notorious for not telling the truth.

5:14 Several people who were familiar with the CIA believe that Michener engineered the involvement of his former son-in-law, Robert Corson. And remember what I said, out of the three names of his daughter, Corson was one of those names. Robert Corson married Michener's daughter. And the association between Bush and Corson happened.

5:45 while he was CIA director. A Washington lawyer familiar with the CIA told the reporter, the author of this book, that Corson's work for the CIA began in 1976 when Michener's friend Bush was director. In addition, a former federal law enforcement official familiar with Corson's money laundering activities,

6:16 you know the cia loves to money launder that corson's participation began around the time jimmy carter won the 76 presidential election which again is very interesting in relationship to the stuff we've already studied because if you remember jimmy carter almost immediately gets rid of the covert element like 800 of the covert um officers

6:42 And he had already told Bush he was not going to continue him as the CIA director. So they knew that they needed to offshore a lot of their CIA activities because they were very queasy about President Carter and what he was going to do. And as we find out within the first year, he basically shuts down the covert element. And that's where the Safari Club,

7:12 comes into play. It's not talked about in this book, but I just want to give you guys a reminder. The Safari Club was set up by Aiden Khashoggi in Kenya, and Bush was a key player in it. And it basically operated as a shadow CIA to house all of the covert people that had been removed from the CIA by Jimmy Carter.

7:41 And that's around the same time this Robert Corson begins a relationship with George Bush Sr. And as we're going to find out, he's money laundering basically for CIA activities, which kind of makes perfect sense timing wise. So I just wanted to add that into the conversation here. In addition, a former federal law enforcement official who.

8:11 had worked on Corson's investigation and his money laundering activities believed that Corson's participation was significant as far as being a money launderer. The law enforcement official stated that after Carter's victory, Bush begged Carter to keep him on as the CIA director, and when Carter refused, Bush returned to Texas, met with Michener,

8:43 and they decided, among other things regarding their private activities, to use Corson as a cutout or front man. When the story of his alleged meeting with Bush was related to Michener for comment, he denied it, focusing on the first part. I can testify that Bush wouldn't go to Carter and ask him to stay on, which is absolutely not true. He did. If Michener so testified under oath,

9:18 then he could be prosecuted for perjury because that's exactly what happened. Several months later, when the author interviewed Michener, he had found an article in the Washington Post dated August 10th, 1988, stating that after Carter defeated Gerald Ford, quote, Bush wanted to stay on at the agency desperately and even visited Carter in Georgia.

9:51 to have the conversation. The article went on that Bush's CIA deputy, Noshi, who accompanied him to Plains, Georgia for the meeting, recalled that Bush offered to stay on for a short while for a transition. And he was a little shocked when Carter wasn't interested at all. And he actually went on the record in that article saying that. Robert,

10:22 Mosbacher, a longtime Bush friend from Texas and current finance chairman of the Bush presidential campaign, said in an interview that Bush went farther and told Carter, if I stay on, I won't run in 1980 for president. Again, Carter was not interested.

10:45 It was also reported that Bush maintained his CIA contacts during the Carter administration, stating that there were several occasions in 78 and 79 when Bush was living in Houston and traveling the country in his first run for presidency that he set aside periods of up to 24 hours and told aides he had to fly to Washington for secret meetings with former CIA directors.

11:13 because he was actually running the Safari Club over in Kenya for the shadow CIA. The day after the first couple's February 1992 visit to Paula Michener Watson's house, an event occurred in Mexico that revealed another side of Walter Michener and George Bush's relationship and exposed the close ties between Michener,

11:44 and the Republican Party in Houston. The event was the death of Albert Bell Frey, who passed away while he was on vacation. Bush described the late Houston businessman, Bell Frey, former U.S. ambassador to Trinidad and Tobago, and former Republican candidate for Texas governor as his political mentor.

12:10 Bush said Frey was his close personal friend and leader in building the Republican Party in Houston. And keep in mind, Trinidad and Tobago, even back then, was a drug trafficking hub. Michener has also acknowledged that Fay was a good friend of his. Fay served on the board of directors of Westside National Bank in Houston, a bank partly controlled by Michener's son-in-law.

12:40 Robert Corson, and money launderer for the CIA. Paula, his daughter, was married to Corson. Faye also did business and owned property in Belize, the small Central American country where Michener was very active. And again, Belize comes up quite often in this story. Michener's circle of business associates and friends continued to intersect

13:14 with President Bush. One of Bush's oldest and closest friends is the previously mentioned Midland, Texas oilman, William Blakemore. Blakemore was a fierce supporter of the Nicaraguan Contras and was president of the Gulf and Caribbean Foundation, which raised private money and lobbied Congress for aid to the Contras.

13:44 which we all know Bush Sr. was very involved in because he was running that operation out of the office of the vice president. A paper found in Oliver North's White House safe diagramming the private aid network to the Contras show that the Gulf and Caribbean Foundation was one of the key organizations to funding the Contras. Well, that's weird.

14:17 So Vice President Bush's good friend, fierce Nicaraguan Contras supporter, was presiding over a foundation that raised money for the Contras. Norse Diaries also listed several meetings with Blakemore and the Gulf and Caribbean frontman, Dan Kuykendall, who was a Texan, Washington lobbyist, and former Tennessee congressman.

14:47 The Gulf and Caribbean Foundation hired Michael Ledeen to write a booklet on the situation in Latin America. Michael Ledeen has come up several times in our conversations as well. They were focused on Nicaragua. Ledeen was a part-time advisor to the National Security Council, where Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North was assigned and running the Iran-Contra.

15:19 He was also one of the leading instigators for the Iranian arms for hostage deals. And one of Blakemore's Houston attorneys is a lawyer who represented the Houston interests of the family of the late Nicaraguan dictator, Somoza. What a close-knit group. Blakemore married a daughter of the eccentric oilman, Jim.

15:52 Silver Dollar West, and he was called that because he used to carry around a whole bunch of silver dollars in his pocket. The other West's daughter and her husband were a major financial force behind Tracor, which was an Austin-based electronics firm and defense contractor. Their partner was a large stockholder and board member.

16:24 of tracor was jack trotter the guy we were just talking about he was mitchner's associate and benson's trustee of his trust that had all his money in it while he was a senator in 1969 trotter along with blake moore and uh the samosa attorney was named one of the three trustees of most of the west family trust blake moore

16:56 has said that he knows mitchner well and said he gave a little money to his foundation one supporting a desert museum in far west texas but mitchner when asked if he knew blake moore said yeah i know him he's got a ranch by alpine and now keep in mind all of these ranches we're going to find out later on are used for landing aircraft drugs

17:25 and taking weapons out of the United States down to the Contras. Michener's response, saying that, yeah, he knows him a little bit, was intended to convey the impression that he knows nothing about Blakemore or his Iron Mountain Ranch, which was used for CIA training of Latin American assets in transshipment of weapons to Latin America. Blakemore's ranch.

17:59 is actually outside of Marathon, 30 miles east of Alpine. Michener, a man who has owned hundreds of thousands of acres in that exact area, knew exactly where his ranch was. But he tried to play coy. Another strong Contra supporter and Houston Republican who has also supported Bush from his earliest political races is a guy by the name of Jimmy Lyons.

18:29 Lyons is also a banker. He is mentioned at least four times in Oliver Norse's diary in connection with fundraising for the Contras. Lyon and Michener are also longtime good friends. Lyon said they had done business together for many years. Robert Mosbacher was another very good close friend of Bush's and former Secretary of Commerce.

19:00 and he served as the Bush-Quell campaign chairman. He is no stranger to Michener either. In 1984, Michener began one of his most grandiose developments west of Houston called Cinco Ranch. It was a 5,400-acre development from Mosbacher and several other wealthy Houstonians. In 1980,

19:30 Walter Michener was the largest fundraiser in the country for Ronald Reagan and George Bush, collecting more than $3 million for their campaign, including $2.8 million in one fundraising dinner alone in Houston. The Houston Chronicle also reported in March 1992 that Michener donated $1,000 to Bush's campaign,

20:01 Harrison County contributors. Michener was introduced to the circle of Brahmin Houston Republicans like Bush, James Baker III, and Mosbacher by Lyons and Tony Robinson. Robinson, another banker, he was also a contractor who owned First Mortgage. That's a bank.

20:29 And Lyon controlled the right-wing newspaper called the Houston Tribune. The money for Michener's first construction jobs came from Tommy Robinson. He had been a longtime Houstonian who stated that Robinson, Michener, Bush, and Baker all hung out together at a thing called the Houston Country Club. The two sons of Bush and Michener, Neal, Bush, and...

21:00 Walt Mishner Jr. were very good friends. A Houston newspaper gossip column confirmed that Neil and Walt Jr. had lunch and dinner together often all over Houston. The two sons of Neil and Walt Jr. also attended first grade together at Kinkade School.

21:32 their sons, Neil's son and Walt Jr.'s son. It was a very exclusive private school in Houston, one that Neil Bush attended when he was a kid as well. Baker's kids attended that, James Baker's, Mossbacher's kids attended that. So it's basically the...

22:01 the schools that war hamster and i have all talked about the grooming schools this is the grooming school for houston and mitchner senior served on their investment foundation i've never went to a school that had an investment foundation and for some reason walt mishner jr denies being close to neil they all have this disease that after all of this went down nobody knew anybody even though

22:34 They literally saw each other all the time. Michener Jr. would go on to say, I met him one time in my life. I've never had lunch with him, even though it was reported on that they did. When Neil Bush was charged by the Office of Thrift Supervision with conflicts of interest in his actions as director of the Silverado Bank,

23:05 Bank Savings and Loan Association in Denver. Charles Pickett appeared as one of the two expert witnesses on his behalf. Pickett was the former general counsel to Michener's Allied Bank Share Company. Even though the Office of Thrift Supervision knew this and knew of Neal's relationship to Walt Jr. and their father's relationship,

23:33 The Office of Thrift Supervision attorneys incredibly did not question either Neal or Pickett about it. Before joining Allied Bank Shares, Pickett was a regional counsel for the Dallas region of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, FDIC, the ones that are going to bail all of these people out and spend all of our money after they get done laundering all of the drug money.

24:03 Walt Michener Jr. said he knows who Pickett is, but he didn't really have anything to do with them, much like Neal. Michener Sr. denied knowing who Pickett was, but then he would later say, oh yeah, yeah, I remember him, but I thought he had a different first name. Convenient amnesia. So the rest of this goes into Michener's childhood and

24:37 how he kind of grew up and how he started the Michener Corporation, which I'm not going to go into a lot of details about that. I just wanted to kind of plant the seed of how all of those people knew each other, how close this circle is, and how after the fact, they all develop amnesia about knowing each other.

25:08 Part of this story, after Michener Senior creates Michener Corporation, which is basically a construction, development, real estate investment kind of a company, it had grown to be less than right at about $100 million in assets. Michener had ran some of the largest businesses in this.

25:38 um area at one time in the early 1980s he served on the board of braniff airlines he had a long time working relationship with a guy by the name of howard terry they were stockholders in marathon manufacturing corporation which was purchased by cincinnati billionaire carl lenders penn central we knew we were going to get railroads in there somewhere um

26:10 I just noticed Bridget down there. I'll bring you up, Bridget. Michener and Terry's stock in Marathon was swapped for Penn Central stock, and Terry was named to the Penn Central Board of Directors. In 1986, Michener and Terry sold their Penn Central stock for $106 million. At one time, Michener was the fourth largest private landowner.

26:39 in Texas. That's crazy. When James Michener, when he was writing his novel about the Lone Star State, Michener actually interviewed Michener, their names are too close together, as kind of to model some of the people in his book off of his life.

27:19 Michener's primary business interests lay in his extensive government protection, protected business called banking. Michener had been a big collector of banks since the 1950s. In the mid 70s, he had consolidated them into Allied Bank of Texas, which was the fourth largest bank in Houston with assets approaching 10.

27:48 billion dollars. He had more than 40 subsidiaries across Texas. He was the largest stockholder of the bank with 5% of the common shares and was chairman of the holding company Allied Bank Shares. When he sold out in 1988 to First Interstate Bank of California, that was his position when he sold, which is interesting timing. Michener is known for hiring former federal

28:21 examiners to run his banks and has a long time connection to the top echelons of federal banking regulatory entities his son walt jr had been a director of the houston bank of the houston branch sorry of the dallas federal reserve bank so he has people literally everywhere on the inside

28:49 The former U.S. Comptroller of the Currency, Robert Clark, who was not reconfirmed by the Senate in 1991, but stayed on until 1992 because Bush had not named a replacement, was a good friend of Michener's too. Clark was an investor, borrower, and director on Michener's bank, Allied Bank. Again, he knows everybody everywhere in the government.

29:19 both federally and within the state of Texas. In 1974, Clark, then an attorney in Houston, and his brother-in-law, D. Kent Anderson, was also a top executive at Allied Bank. They invested together in a bank that was later sold to Michener. Before he was named comptroller in 1985 by Treasury Secretary James Baker,

29:51 Oh my gosh. Clark was a lawyer for Bracewell and Patterson, a Houston law firm that did the majority of Michener's legal work. At one time, Clark was buying and selling stock in First Continental Real Estate Investment Trust, a mortgage financing firm where Michener Jr. was a director. Clark also had dozens of outstanding loans at Allied.

30:19 after he became the comptroller. So basically, he was kind of owned by Menchner. Although Clark's office does not oversee state-chartered banks like Allied, he did sit on the board of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, again, FDIC. That's going to get stuck with the bill when they take all these banks down. Clark also had an investment in a Louisiana bank with his brother-in-law, Gerald Smith.

30:48 Michener's right-hand man at Allied Bank. Another investor in this bank was Herman Beebe. We introduced Herman Beebe when we did the first show. He's the mafia guy. One last connection is in 1970, Michener had some questionable loans with Houston First Savings, an SNL that was owned by his friend and partner, an Allied Bank board member.

31:20 Eddie Dyke. The Texas Savings and Loan Department criticized the loans as being imprudent and forced the savings and loan to move them out. The woman who ran the savings and loan for Dyke, Mary Grigsby, was later appointed by President Carter to a place on the Federal Home Loan Bank Board. She just happened to be the one overseeing the banks, the savings and loans.

31:53 After deregulation, Grigsby served on the Federal Home Loan Bank Board with Ed Gray, who was the chairman. It was Grigsby who told Gray in November of 1985 that Charles Keating of Lincoln, of the Keating scandal, of Lincoln Savings, wanted to hire him. This was a time when the savings and loan industry in general

32:24 was criticizing gray for taking a hard line on some of their questionable practices and federal regulators were examining lincoln savings so they actually just like mitchner did they wanted to hire the officials that runs the system into their organizations so their connections

32:48 can basically allow them to operate under the radar they know what to hide what not to hide how to talk that type of thing mitchner has also been involved in some not so legitimate enterprises he was on the fringes of two of the biggest scandals in texas and houston history the sharptown scandal in the early 70s that toppled several of his politicians and

33:20 Herman Hospital estate scandal in the mid-80s that came close to engulfing his son because of his place on an estate board. The Sharpsdown scandal was about two things near and dear to Michener, banking and politics. Houston banker Frank Sharp had been running his bank fast and loose and wanted to get out from under the oversight.

33:51 of the fdic sharp made some sweetheart loans and stock deals to favored texas politicians to get a law passed by the texas legislature sharp got caught and pled guilty and took a bunch of texas politicians down with them one of the politicians was the speaker of the texas house of representatives gus muchner who was convicted of taking a bribe

34:19 In 1970, a year before the scandal broke, Muechner appointed Muechner, these are crazy names, to his committee of 100 to study the duties and responsibilities of ethics of state legislatures. Muechner, the guy who's in bed with the CIA and the mafia, the Speaker of the House in Texas appointed him to an ethics board.

34:52 Years later, after Michener got himself rehabilitated and elected county judge of Washington County, he was borrowing money for questionable land deals from Michener's allied bank. The politician closest to Michener who got swept away by the Sharpsdown scandal was Ben Barnes. He was a golden haired boy from Brownwood that

35:23 had risen faster than any politician around him. At age 26, he became the youngest speaker of the House and was Texas Lieutenant Governor who had his eyes on the governorship. Although he wasn't directly implicated, he was tarred by the whole scandal and defeated in the 1972 Democratic primary for governor. Barnes was Michener's boy.

35:51 Not only did Michener support him politically, he loaned him money for business adventures with sweetheart deal loans to buy an interest in a radio station. Years later, Barne would reminisce about how Michener advised him not to run for governor in 70, but wait until 72, which turned out to be a fatal mistake because he lost the election. Many of the details of the Sharpstown story

36:19 was written about in a book called Shadow of the Alamo by a Washington investigative reporter by the name of Katz, who picked up on the significance of Michener faster than most people in Texas. Katz missed something very important, though, about Michener, his relationship with one of the most powerful mafia families, the Marcello family in New Orleans. The author.

36:48 was first told about mitchner's connection to the new orleans mafia family by a deputy sheriff who had worked for a harrison county commissioner that was in mitchner's pocket he in turn referred me to a number of retired houston police officers who had worked in the criminal intelligence division this division followed carlos marcelo the new orleans mafia don and his relatives for years

37:18 The retired intelligence division officers confirmed that Michener and Marcellos knew each other, met often, and had mutual business interests. They also said that Marcello had contact with other powerful Houstonians, including developer Kenneth Schnitzer and prominent oil man John Mecham Jr. When Marcello and family came to Houston,

37:46 They would sometimes stay at the Stouffer Hotel, which was developed by Schnitzner. Schnitzner, who had a number of business connections with Michener, bought a savings and loan in a suburb of Houston that was controlled by a man called Tommy Adkins. He was a partner of Michener on several different land deals to include ones that include Senator Benson. Walter Michener

38:17 And I have been very close, Snitchner said. I think the only business transaction that we did together was the development of a merchandise mart. I have never done any other business with Mitchner or his son. However, Snitchner Development Company built the 71-story Allied Bank building for Mitchner. That's his headquarters. He didn't bother to mention that. Oh.

38:51 And this is something that was hilarious. Allied Bank Building, where Michener's Bank Holding Company was headquartered, was also the building where the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, BCCI, had its Houston branch. Isn't that weird? The CIA front bank that Bush Sr. had an account.

39:23 along with Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, and all of the drug kingpins, their Houston branch was in the same building with Michener. That's crazy. In 1990, Snitchner was a partner with Walt Michener Jr. and a group of Houston investors vying for a $1 billion rail transit contract.

39:52 Schnitzner also said that he never associated with Marcello, the mafia guy. If Marcello were ever comped into the Greenway Stouffer Hotel, I did not arrange that, except that he was often. One former Houston police officer from the Criminal Intelligence Division said that Schnitzner had been contacted when Joseph Marcello,

40:24 carlos marcelo's son was in town he said the marcellos would register into the stouffer and then go to a party in snitchner's penthouse but again convenient amnesia he had mafia guys come into his penthouse and he didn't know him i do not have and never have had a penthouse he would later say the former officer said the penthouse was um

40:57 Definitely in existence because he had been in it. When Mary Flood and the author interviewed Michener in 1987 for an article in the Houston Post, he asked him about his relationship with Carlos Marcello, which a number of people had told them about. Surprisingly, he said that he had met Marcello when a Houston real estate man, he couldn't remember who, brought the Mafia Don to his office.

41:29 Mishner said Marcello, whom he described as short, squatty, and Italian, wanted to buy two Houston hotels from him. Mishner and his partner, Howard Terry, who owned the Coronado Hotel and the Carousel Hotel together. The Coronado was in an older neighborhood, which later burned down. The Carousel had opened in 1960.

41:55 The hotel was located in downtown close to the Hobby Airport. It was supposed to be the modern hip-swinging hotel. It was actively involved in prostitution. It was also where, according to the author, NASA hid the Mercury astronauts from the press. The Carousel Hotel is well known to many first-year law students.

42:28 Because of a court case involving the carousel is used in tort class. Back in the early 60s, a black man who worked for NASA was going through a buffet line and the manager basically jerked the plate out of his hands and said he couldn't eat there. The Texas Supreme Court ruled in favor of the black man, deciding that jerking his plate out of his hand constituted battery.

42:59 Houston Intercontinental Airport opened north of the city. The Hobby Airport was closed for a short time. The carousel died on the vine during that time. That's when Marcello came around saying he wanted to buy it. It appears that Michener sold the hotel to Marcello but did so indirectly. Michener said he couldn't remember who bought the hotel. It turned out to be a man named John Kenneth.

43:30 Coyle, a disbarred attorney who had been convicted of pornography for offering X-rated movies in the hotel rooms. A sergeant in the vice division of the Houston Police Department said Coyle was an associate of the mafia Marcello family. Coyle had a similar X-rated hotel in San Antonio. He also had one. Oh, I'm sorry.

44:02 He had one called the San Antonio Inn in Louisiana, which is where we find Herman Beebe, as well as the Marcello family. He had another one called the Town and Country, which was supposedly where Marcello hung out all the time. The transaction between Coyle, Michener, and Terry over the carousel was a strange one. Michener said that he sold the hotel on a contract for deed. This basically means that the title to the property

44:35 in the form of a deed, is not transferred to the buyer until the property is completely paid for. In a normal transaction, the buyer gets title to the property by deed, and if the buyer owes the seller or the bank money, then the seller or the bank retains a lien on the property. That's not how this transaction worked. In the case of Carousel, Michener and Terry retain title to the hotel and continue to pay taxes while

45:05 Marcello's man showed porno flicks and ran a whorehouse in it. Michener said they took the hotel back and then bulldozed it. An independent confirmation that Marcello controlled the carousel hotel is contained in a book called The Man on the Grassy Knoll by two Houston investigators, John Craig and Philip Rogers. The book.

45:36 At the time this book was written, it had not yet come out, but it had already been announced that it was coming out. One of the three so-called tramps that were taken into custody in Dallas after JFK's assassination. The authors show that this man was a CIA agent. One of the other tramps they identified as convicted hitman Charles Harrelson.

46:04 Craig and Rogers state in their book that after the assassination, the CIA agent had called Harrelson, quote, who was staying at another Carlos Marcelo-owned rest stop, the Carousel Hotel. The Carousel was a well-known hideout and watering hole for assassins, kidnappers, drug traffickers, or anybody else that worked for the mafia.

46:33 After the 1987 interview with Michener, the author talked to two other people who confirmed Michener's relationship to the Marcello family. One, a former Michener employee and close personal friend, said Michener not only dealt with Marcello, but also other mob associates in New York and Chicago. This person said he once saw Michener together with some of Marcello's brothers at a steakhouse in Houston.

47:01 That steakhouse was called the Hofbro and was owned by a man called Brown Rice. Who was Brown Rice? Who would do that? Was a partner in the Victorian House Hotel in Belize with Albert Belfray, the guy we talked about, who was George Bush's mentor. What?

47:28 And yet another individual who confirmed Michener's relationship to Marcello was a private investigator in Houston who had a great deal of contact with the FBI. This person said he knew Michener's relationship with Marcello primarily through Herman Beebe, the Louisiana mob associate, and the so-called godfather of the crooked Texas SNLs. Beebe deserves an entire book, but...

47:56 we're going to go through him in chapter three he he literally could have an entire book because he's littered throughout the savings and loan debacle okay that's it for today i know illini has something to say what a tour de force covering a lot of stuff um my mind is spinning a little bit because you mentioned robert corson a little bit and i thought i his name came up

48:30 as you know in republican circles but no that was um this guy by the name of gray who ran yes um a uh a uh dc lobbying firm you know for republicans gray was the pr guy that basically was part owner of a whorehouse in dc okay there's just so many connections here you know including i mean you even covered the grassy knoll with uh

49:00 Kennedy, it's interesting how kind of in the background of all of this, there's the Murchison family. If I recall correctly, they're mentioned once or twice in the index of this book. And the Murchisons were heavily involved with both Hoover as well as LBJ. And I think that that assassin who's arrested on the grassy knoll

49:28 also had some connections to the murchison's too um so there's there's all these interesting connections from bush to you know dallas and 63. isn't that interesting yes yeah um and and the connection to bcci where bush had a bank account that blew my mind oh yeah and let's not even get started about iran contra and you can see through this book at the very least

49:58 And, you know, Colonel, I've skimmed parts of it, like I read it more like a research librarian kind of skims through citations of stuff. Yeah. But you could see through this book how there's this subtle connection from from Dallas to to the Iran-Contra scandal. And that, I think, is.

50:24 We're going to get in. Yeah, we're going to get into a lot of that in here because that, and I know you're in and out of these spaces, but that blew me away because when we've been through all of this and you guys, anybody that follows these podcasts that I do with alpha and stuff, I always have said throughout the last few years that it was just interesting to me that Belize never came up in any of the stories.

50:53 And I just assumed because it was a UK protectorate that we hadn't cooed it for that reason. That's not true. This book is full of links to Belize. And one of these guys bought 12% of the landmass of Belize as a stopping off point for trafficking.

51:19 weapons and drugs. And we're going to get into that. But this book is littered. I mean, I would be safe to say after reading this book that the entire savings and loan takedown was you could not have separated Iran-Contra to this takedown. And a lot of the money laundering that was done in the savings and loans were done directly to support the Iran-Contra.

51:48 um operation the the the link is like direct it's crazy um all along go ahead worth all that you know it seems like this investigation occurred during the 90s i guess maybe some of it in the 80s and um you know also gary webb was you know during the 90s and there were you know

52:24 journalists like Wendell Tracy, I'm sorry, Wendell Stacy of Memphis, who actually did try to investigate the MLK conspiracy trials. And it's like, think for a second about the changes in media that have happened since that time, right? Because, you know, a lot of these newspapers like the Detroit News,

52:55 The St. Louis Voices Patch, you know, his paper in Houston. These are like, you know, they're not national news figures, but like each, you know, a lot of the cities have, you know, DC bureaus. They hired investigative reporters. And where are those people today? They're gone, you know? And so ironically, it's like, are the...

53:25 finance system you know has internationalized you know you have you know the bitcoins and the you know whatever sort of cryptocurrencies going on here you have you know complex worldwide financial scandals that are just not it's like there's the more complex that the financial world has become

54:20 Well... What's interesting... Yeah.

54:47 So let me put what you just said in perspective. This book was published in 1992. He started writing articles in the late 1980s and then compiled all of them and added to them after he was let go. So obviously writing about stuff like this was very,

55:18 hazardous to your financial health and your health in general back in the day what i find most interesting today is that there's so much information out there just like all of the independent people reporting on the minnesota fraud the problem is that it's too much information not concisely packaged

55:45 as a trained reporter would be able to do that people are provided with information overload and there's no media outlet that has a large enough circulation to let alone they're not being a reporter to consolidate it. So if you had

56:10 investigative reporters that could surf through the internet and was given a forum in a prominent way, you could break through that ice. But I think it's a matter of too much information and not presented in a concise way that is overwhelming to most people. And they just kind of throw their hands up.

56:39 which is unfortunate because the longer away from the 70s and 80s that we got, the more corrupt the quote unquote journalists became. And I know we talk about the Mockingbird media a lot, but...

57:01 Obviously, and I think it's just kind of foundational. In the 70s, when it was exposed that basically the CIA either partly owned or in large part owned a lot of the media, nothing was ever done about it. And I think that was their avenue to go full bore into it and basically corrupt it all. If they can do it and be exposed and not held accountable by Congress, then.

57:30 They're just going to do it more. And I think that's where you see the nosedive of the investigative journalist throughout the, you know, there was a few that tried during the 80s. We saw what happened to them and it kind of just withered on the vine. And now it's not that we don't have the information. There's a lot of great people talking about.

57:56 national issues at a local level, the Minnesota fraud being one of them, because that is a national issue that's happening all over the United States. But there's been somebody that's done a lot of research on it in Minnesota. And unfortunately, it's not packaged in a concise way for most people to understand. Illini, go ahead. I'm going to push back a little bit on all along.

58:26 You know, what I would say is that if you rewind to the 50s, 60s and 70s, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the big outlets were all kind of controlled by the intelligence agencies. And they sure as heck influenced, you know, the big three networks as well as, you know, the public broadcasting system. Yep. That was definitely going on. And, you know, like.

58:53 You know, Jack Anderson and Seymour Hersh were kind of the exceptions that almost sort of proved the rule. You know, when we got, you know, Pete Bruton, I think, you know, he wasn't, I think the Houston Chronicle was the second biggest paper in Houston. And Gary Webb was working at, you know, the San Jose Mercury. This wasn't the LA Times. This wasn't, I mean, these were respectable professional journalists in their own right.

59:23 But if this were a story that happened at the Washington Post, it would have gotten killed by the editor's desk. Yep. That's true. We had that going on back then, too. Yep. Well, and that's illustrative of what they did to Gary Webb. The New York Times and Washington Post both cremated him and got his story, you know, basically got him ditched.

59:52 Megan, go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to chime in along on what all along had been talking about. You're talking about MSN, mainstream news. And now that X has become the mainstream news, we have a problem in this system where people that are actually bringing up issues like this.

1:00:22 The hotel issues, the bank issues, political issues. And they'll hit the heart, but they won't hit repost. And I'm just going to call out everybody in this room. We only got 10 reposts on the Colonel's Corner. That's sad. We have to change our method of thinking that we're just injustices.

1:00:53 of information and then you go about your day now you have to participate if you don't participate you are you are letting all of this stuff continue to happen so not just for the colonel's corner but if you see a blurb anywhere on x don't just hit the like because you agree with it hit repost to get the message out the more people that see it the more attention is going to get dragged to it and

1:01:22 Colonel, I know I've asked you in a couple of other spaces, what do we do now? What do we do now? What do we do now? I finally figured it out. You have to basically be our own. What's that game we used to play when we were kids? Telephone? Yeah. You got to get this stuff out. Put it out there.

1:01:46 Don't just sit on the information. I'll land my plane there. So, and that's a very important point. You guys know that I host local Patriot meetups here where we, you know, we have probably 40 people that show up. And they're different ones every time. There are people from all over the state of Florida. I mean, we had some guy drive from Atlanta for one of them.

1:02:11 I'm often asked to speak locally here to constitutional clubs. I'm going next week to a Christmas dinner. I'm not going to be cheerful, but I don't have cheerful things to say, but they look forward. I probably go speak to this group two or three times a year over the last three years. Well, actually more often than that, but they're actively wanting.

1:02:39 information that can be compiled into meaningful presentations. And I take doing that very seriously, because I think the information that we have is so important. And I encourage all of you guys to do that. Megan is exactly right. You can share

1:03:05 our Rumble channel. I had somebody that showed up at the one we did a couple of weekends ago and he said, I binge watch like an entire book in a weekend. I'm trying to get caught up, but he said, you've blown my mind. You blow my mind. He came up to me like four times. You just blow my mind. So if you're willing to put in the effort.

1:03:31 And you present the material in a meaningful way so that it's because, as you guys know, everything about history repeats itself because no one ever did anything about it. And so going back and reading these books, you can see how these operations are playing out in real time today. And that's why I think it allows us an insight into what's going on.

1:03:57 like everybody keeps calling what's going on in America, color revolution. It's a fucking coup. Sorry. It just is. And we know that because we've researched how these things operate in other countries. And that's why I just, I feel so passionate about what we're doing all along. Go ahead. I'm not to nitpick with the line, but I kind of, if you look at like the mid sixties, like,

1:04:36 critical New York Times articles on the CIA in 1966, for example, and also Larry Stern's, you know, career at Washington Post. Just look at his whole catalog. There's kind of what I would call a blind spot of liberalism where, like, there would seem to be some journalists who actually don't know that they're not allowed to write about the CIA. And it...

1:05:09 it contrasts tremendously obviously with right now but um so even though the 1960s was still kind of like three network and no internet and no fox yet so in other words they they still had the illusion that worked for both sides you know which but that's you know better and worse all along i think you make a critical point right there those few people

1:05:40 like Hearst and stuff like that, had to be allowed to write critical articles to keep that illusion alive. Now, they don't give a shit. There is no illusion. I think you're right. I think you're both saying the same thing. There were journalists, even at the New York Times and Washington Post, that were occasionally allowed to report real stories.

1:06:15 Because without that, people would have caught on a lot sooner that there isn't a left and a right. And yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, and also at the same time, you had, like, where Seymour Hersh is, you know, printing some true, all kinds of true stuff about CIA, yet at the same time, he becomes like a leading source of disinformation on the JFK stuff.

1:06:45 Limited hangout? Yeah, and what I would call a left gatekeeper. Yeah, yeah. So that the left, I mean, again, you still see this, and it's hugely important. I mean, I apparently agree that there's a little left and right, but at the same time, I kind of disagree, too, because, you know, the whole shtick where the CIA creates a fake left in order to go...

1:07:12 Go further right, but I have to qualify that. What I mean, obviously, by further right is for the international corporate cartels. Yes. Obviously, I'm not talking about cultural right-wing stuff. Yes, yes, yes, yes. International corporate CIA right-wing. Yes, yes, yes. And so you get folks like Seymour Hersh, you know, getting credibility on the, quote, left. Yes. And yet being the most important liar on one of the most important liars on the JFK stuff.

1:07:41 You know, sparring pure CIA propaganda from Sam Halpern, Richard Helms' right-hand man. And again, so it's, again, it's no accident that right now, you know, the left is not talking about the CIA at all. Still, well, they're only allowed to talk about it in foreign countries. They're just like inside the United States. It's like, what kind of left is that? You know, how can you really call yourself left when the CIA came from Wall Street?

1:08:10 Its origins and apparel is a blah, blah, blah. And yet at the same time, you know, the figures on the right are allowed to talk more openly about CIA. And it's like, do we really think that's by accident? So, but I think that's illusory. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's illustrated by when Warhamster and I did the Delano Roosevelt family. You had basically.

1:08:38 a left and right in the same family, but it was all controlled. They all were going in the same direction. They just did it labeled as Republican and Democrat for there to appear to be a left and a right when they were all taking us to the same cattle car. Megan, go ahead. Yeah, I'm going to respond to it. It sounds to me like you're pissed off enough to become a citizen journalist.

1:09:12 If you don't like the way things are going today. He would be very good. Make the change, brother. Yeah, he would be very good. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You can't keep living in the past. We're here now. We have to look toward the future. And the future is X and people like you getting pissed off enough to start talking. Yeah. That's what needs to happen. He would be very, very good at that. Yep. I agree.

1:09:43 Go ahead, Alan. Well, thanks for what you're saying, you know, but also the reality is that, you know, my algorithm on X is probably, you know, if we're in a rock and roll band, I would be called bad algorithm until the day I die. And it's like, this is Elon, here's Elon clearly to be against the deep state, but, you know, especially on my feed, where I'm...

1:10:17 encountered constantly with, you know... Write an article. I'll help you. Write an article. I'll help you. Well, I'll have to... The attention span from Jeff Bezos, I guess, a little bit. I appreciate your comments. Just to finish that one last comment. It's so noticeable, you know, that people... If you write about the assassinations of JFK, Malcolm X, MLK, and RFK...

1:10:47 from a left perspective you are not allowed you are nobody will see you and you're like wait a minute malcolm x and the cia says that's kind of left sounding guys that that's like for me that's the kicker you know so they're not going to even let an out you know if they're not going to even that let the malcolm x assassination you know be seen by left readers right

1:11:16 seen by left readers, then there's something going on here. There is. There's really a sleigh of hand going on here. But I'm going to push back on you all along. It took me forever to get to where I am today. And we now have a ton of media people following us. They'll see it if you'll do it. And I'll help you do it.

1:11:47 That's just the thing. So I didn't allow the, and you can ask Bridget, my stuff for, it is only in the last, I'm going to, ever since I showed up on Redacted, that was the kind of the breaking of the algorithm. But even now, they will try to suppress different things that I write. And I understand that.

1:12:14 We have dealt with that for three solid years. And only recently, thanks to you guys, has this information started getting broader views. And again, I've had people DM me going, I don't know how I didn't see your account before. And it's because they weren't allowed to see my account before.

1:12:43 So we apparently got over some hump, thanks to you guys. And I will help anybody that wants to write about, especially the stuff that you write about all along. I think it's critically important. Frank M., go ahead. Welcome to our space. Thank you.

1:13:09 This is the first I've seen you myself. I was Air Force 1966 to 1970. I was in the 509th Bomb Wing SAC, which is no longer around. But I saw Colonel, so I thought, okay, I'm going to jump in there and see what he or she has to say.

1:13:32 Say, and I see it's a she, what was your AFSC, Colonel? Well, I started out in aircraft maintenance. I, too, was assigned to a SAC base at Grissom on KC-135s. I did aircraft maintenance for six years on active duty, two years at a civilian airline at Stanford Field for Evergreen Airlines that I...

1:13:52 recently found out was CIA. And they had the contract maintenance for UPS at Stanford Field. I graduated from IU and through ROTC. And then I became a personnel officer. And I did that for about 10 years. And then, you know, you get into the command track, the squadron command, group command. Yeah. And I retired as a wing commander. Awesome. I was a jet engine technician on the B-52 and KC-135. You mentioned a model.

1:14:22 So you went to Chanute? No, I went to Amarillo for everything. Oh, well, when did you come in? When did you come in? 1966. Oh, okay. So they moved aircraft maintenance to include the jet engine mechanic to Chanute. I came in in 79. Oh, okay. Well, there you go. I think Amarillo was closed by then, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I served in Unipow.

1:14:55 A lot of the guys I worked with was there.

1:15:10 I went there in 2003 as part of Air War College. Southeast Asia was my specialty the year that I attended Air War College. And so I got to go to Udorn and all of the different air bases that we flew out of, which was very, very interesting since I grew up with the guys that were all of the maintenance guys that was in my...

1:15:34 um squadron at grissom and i was at the tech school at chenute um as an instructor um they had all been there yeah yeah yeah it was uh seven uh seven days a week 12 hours yeah hours a day on the flight line so we ran a lot of a lot of bombing missions out of there yeah vietnam of course and anderson also i i was in anderson in 67 at guam and uh yeah and um

1:16:02 Thailand in 68. And you were talking about the case. Now, well, the 8 model was still around when you started out, right? You may have heard about this, but I'm going to tell you. 1968, September 28th, we were coming back from Utapau and we crashed on Wake Island in a KC-135.

1:16:32 11 guys i don't know if you ever heard of it no i did not no yeah it uh like i said september 28th i believe you can google it uh it's still out there on the internet it could have been the 24th 24th or 28th i'm sure we didn't have too many 135s crash yeah yeah yeah uh the tail was 55-3133

1:16:58 and it's it should still be out there from the national transportation board yeah but uh yeah we came in uh well we came in low and there's a whole story behind it but i don't want to tie your space up with that so anyway well thank you for being here we're here monday through friday at four o'clock every day we go through history we review history and we focus on the cia um and its mafia connections oh yeah that's a good

1:17:28 good conversation yes i watched a uh if you don't mind a documentary that's new it came out in 2025 okay and it makes that connection big time and it also in my opinion they give you four scenarios of who killed jfk no doubt in my mind it was the cia and the mafia after watching this so so if you get a chance to look for it uh okay uh something kennedy

1:17:56 uh 2025 and i think it's on prime okay uh and it is really really good okay this was put together from what i remember 1979 they had another commission that talked about the warren commission and said you know they they had this all figured out assassinations right frank yeah say that again you've got to join our spaces then i mean

1:18:21 Colonel has really gone into the weeds on this one. He shows you the CIA and mafia connections. Yep. We talk about it every day. Yeah. That's what I choose. Okay. I'll let it go. All right. Thank you. All along. Sure. All along. Go ahead. Yeah. I just wanted to ask Frank if he, when he was strategic, serving in the strategic air command, did he, was Tommy Powers still General Tommy Powers?

1:18:49 still in charge of that in 1966? Because, you know, he's an exceptionally interesting dude, general, Air Force general, who, you know, was, you know, sort of the protege of Curtis LeMay and was seen by some as even more enthusiastic. And I'm just curious, and also, did Frank serve in Omaha at all?

1:19:17 It sounds like it was moved, but did he serve in Omaha and or did he ever serve under General Tommy Polish? Well, the SAC command turned into, it's still there, and it was there when it was decommissioned. Yeah, and I don't know anything about when a flight line working on jet engines. I don't know anything about generals.

1:19:49 Yeah, most most enlisted people, especially those that were in aircraft maintenance, they couldn't even have told you who your major command commander was or your numbered Air Force commander because they went to work, did their job and went home. I told you guys the story about how all of the maintenance guys in my squadron, once they figured out I was the only one that had my formal uniform, the blues.

1:20:19 um that kept my ribbons up to date i ended up being nominated for everything because those guys didn't even keep their blue uniforms up to date they went to work in fatigues and that was it um so yeah i i we didn't have to we didn't have to iron them or nothing no jp foreign oil all over us that's exactly right um yeah they didn't send them to the dry cleaners um so that they look nice um

1:20:49 yeah i mean i know who powers is i've read about him historically um but um yeah he retired in 64. so yeah he is um but i i found that interesting in reading and of course that's not the reading we're allowed to do when you're on active duty that we had a lot of um four star generals that were very um very much in favor of just nuking everything um

1:21:21 And that actually really surprises me because that's not the version you get in the Air Force at all. You don't hear any of that. I mean, it's all about, you know, strategically limiting nuclear and everything. And then you read some of the transcripts of these generals in these meetings and shit, they wanted to nuke everything. It's crazy. Oh, Lon, go ahead. Yeah, I agree completely, Colonel, with what you're...

1:21:51 saying about the nuclear enthusiasm of some folks. And I think that it's, I really think that it is censored. And what I mean by that is, you know, you get accounts of this key Cold War event, that key Cold War event, and the nuclear aspect of it, namely, you know, just the extent to which

1:22:23 folks at strategic air command and and in the joint chiefs of staff as well we're just like so close to having a nuclear first strikes oh my gosh soviet union and how nuclear policy was a part of the vietnam yes planning yes when jfk came into the presidency and he took it out yes and it's like so as so many writers just take the nukes out i know

1:22:52 We're not creating sugar-free gum, guys, here. It is. We're trying to describe historical reality. And, you know, so many of these writers just... And the nuclear stuff overlaps all of it. Yes. In so many ways. Yep. And what I would have to say, you know, if folks get a chance to read the book called Dark Sun by Richard Rhodes, that's really, really good.

1:23:18 I mean, you know, I like the Oppenheimer book by what you would call that they made the movie on. But Dark Sun is like you read that and you're like, what? This is just a whole nother level. Yeah. What planet are they from? Yeah. And it's like it not only ties a nuclear policy, you know, and shows how.

1:23:40 how close they were to nuclear first strikes, but it also, like, ties it into key goings-on in the national security state and the CIA and the Joint Chiefs in the 1950s, which is, again, the period that's so little discussed. Right. And, yeah, Dark Sun is just like, please, everyone read this. I'm trying to do something useful with my life. Okay, yeah, sorry. All right. All right, guys.

1:24:10 Frank, go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to tell that gentleman. When I was in from 66 to 70, the base in the States that I went to was Pease Air Force Base, New Hampshire. New Hampshire. And most every SAC base that had B-52s had an alert pad. And the crew stayed underground, just like you see in the videos about them being underground. Yep. And on that alert pad, it's roped off.

1:24:40 At Pease, we had three or four B-52s loaded with nukes. And I know they were nukes because I watched them after a 30-day period. They would download them and move those aircraft and put new aircraft in there and load them nukes back up. And I watched them do that. And they were pretty good size. I mean, they were pretty big. And I just wanted to tell you that all the SAC bases,

1:25:10 that i know of were on ready standby 24 7. yeah my um cousin was a cop and his specialty was um nuclear weapons and every base he went to um for all of the years that he was there was um nuclear capable because that's what he did he guard nukes as a cop and

1:25:40 You're absolutely right. They were locked and ready to go anytime. And we found that out when we did the book Operation Cyanide. If you guys remember about the USS Liberty, that they had the B-52 out in California that had not only loaded up with nukes, but they had the engines running during that operation because they were anticipating the USS Liberty being.

1:26:08 um sunk and they were going to use that as an excuse um and that was totally shocking to me um but that has been you know i've read some of the minutes of meetings now that's been declassified of meetings both during eisenhower's administration and we had a lot of um general officers that thought that tactical nukes were

1:26:38 kind of the new toy in their toolbox. So let's let Zen up, and then I've got to run. Zen, go ahead. Colonel. Good. How are you? Thanks, everybody. Great space. Thank you. I've been wanting to get into one of your spaces for a while lately, but I've been missing them all. But talking about nukes, several nukes. I believe we lost a couple or one off Spain.

1:27:18 In the 60s? And didn't we lose one on the east coast of the United States in swamplands that they never recovered? We misplaced a few up in North Dakota as well. I don't know if you remember that scandal. There was an inventory done and there were nuclear weapons that were unaccounted for.

1:27:45 So, yeah, we've lost. We've misplaced a few. Did they find the ones that you're talking about? No, they did not. Yeah. Yeah. And then I had a question for you. Sure. When I was over on the ground in Saudi prior to the ground war, you remember we had the... During Desert Storm once? Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:20 They got that big thing going where all of the citizens were sending, you know, letters to any service member. I got a letter from a World War II B-24 Liberator pilot. And I still have this letter. And he said that the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, I can't remember her name.

1:28:50 April Gillespie. Yeah, told the Iraqis that the United States would not get involved. She did. Between Kuwait and Iraq. She did the week before the Kuwait. Yeah, right before Iraq entered Kuwait. That was like a few days before that. And that letter was shocking to me because this was a World War II veteran, a pilot of all things.

1:29:18 He's basically saying that we instigated it or something. Well, we authorized Iraq's invasion of Kuwait because obviously you probably haven't been here the whole time we've been doing this years now.

1:29:40 The invasion happened on the 2nd of August and I know that of 1990 and I know that because that's the day I got to Italy for my first overseas assignment as a lieutenant. And the week before that, April Gillespie, and I didn't know it at the time, this came out later, had basically told, they basically set Saddam Hussein up. That's the bottom line.

1:30:08 conflict over that oil, what happened was Kuwait was horizontally drilling into Iraq's oil and pumping it as if it was Kuwaiti oil. And it had been a long standing feud between the two. And so she told Saddam Hussein if he went into Kuwait to basically take back their oil.

1:30:34 that the U.S. wouldn't have a problem with that. And then that's exactly what he did. And then, of course, we launched Desert Storm 1. So, yeah, that's absolutely true. California, go ahead. Hi. Yes. First, I want to say thank you, Colonel, for making the space available. And I do have a question for you. And that was, you know, regarding the new Cappy generals you mentioned earlier.

1:31:05 I'm curious as to what do you think was motivating them? Do you think their motivation was purely ideological or perhaps they had a financial stake? I don't think they had a financial stake. This is going to sound awful, but my experience in the military is when a military service gets a new toy,

1:31:34 they like to use their new toy. And I don't say that condescendingly, but they do. Having spent four years in the Pentagon, primarily in budget fights with the different services, if some new technology becomes available to one of the services and they have, you know, the acquisition pipeline, then you have this new toy sitting out on all of these bases.

1:32:04 around the United States. And you don't get these new technology equipment and then want to just, you know, occasionally go out to Long 29 Palms or whatever and drive your tank around in training exercises. And you find out much to my chagrin. I have a friend of mine who's on active duty right now.

1:32:33 And he's attached to special operations entities. And you have senior officers in these units that will commit to anything and everything because it's how they get promoted. And there's a nefariousness to that.

1:33:02 That is true when it comes to weaponry. The whole drone technology that's going on right now, you don't want to spend tens, hundreds of millions of dollars training people to do something that you're not going to be in some type of operation to use that capability. And a lot of the senior officers...

1:33:25 um are very happy because they're not the ones that's going to die on the battlefield um to get involved in things using these latest technologies and at the time especially in the 60s nuclear weapons especially tactical nuclear weapons was a new toy and um i know that's not the right way to describe it but that's the best analogy that i can give you um eventually the newness

1:33:54 um wears off and sanity returns um but because certainly by the time i came along in the 80s that was not the new toy anymore and there was a completely different perspective on the use of it but that was not the case in the 50s and 60s so so carnal if i understand you correctly it's

1:34:20 What motivated a good number of these generals, it wasn't so much ideology as just really a base self-interest. I wouldn't call it a self-interest. They honestly thought there's this boogeyman called communists that were everywhere. And they had a weapon that saved people's lives on our side.

1:34:49 It obviously was horrific on the other side. But you don't join the military because you think the world's made up of a bunch of nice guys. You actually believe that there are enemies out there that want to change our way of life and to attack us. And so when you have new weaponry in your arsenal that is available to you, they are...

1:35:18 sometimes overly anxious to use that new weaponry okay so so if i understand correctly for some it was ideological and then for some other generals it was or uh primarily about wanting to get ahead in their career and that's true okay yeah um all along go ahead yeah colonel i think let's say the year 1955 in terms of nuclear first strikes as

1:35:53 something that is not discussed very much but was a really very real presence as an option say between 1955 and 1964 um in 1955 you know nelson rockefeller as you know i mentioned before he was in charge of the um operations could coordinating board uh wait oh jesus

1:36:22 There are so many of these three things, but it's the one where that's coordinating the post-approvals National Security Council between the nine departments. And, you know, as Osgood said, there's a lot of wiggle room in there for boys in the woodwork. In other words, the policy of the National Security State could be applied differently to different departments of the executive branch.

1:36:48 Nelson's boy, Nelson Rockefeller, wrote a book on nuclear policy in, I believe, you know, 57, 58 period that is very close to, you know, kind of legitimizing nuclear first strike ideas. Right. And the other thing that should probably be mentioned is that, you know, the closest we ever got to a nuclear first strike is during the administration of JFK. Right.

1:37:18 And that is like so rarely mentioned in stuff. And I think it really has to be integrated into, you know, JFK is the reason for his assassination, because it's really in these years that you see the truest that, you know, the CIA and Joint Chiefs Strategic Air Command were just doing their own thing here.

1:37:48 barely controlled. And if the American public sees that along with the assassination, it's a whole different game in terms of the connotations for U.S. politics right now. Right. I don't know that I would agree that that was the closest we came after reading Operation Cyanide with the B-52 with engines running fully loaded with nuclear weapons to take off and bomb Egypt.

1:38:17 yeah that and that was 67. you could well be correct on that but in terms of numbers of uh there were three different times where it became yeah eyelash up nuclear first strike yeah and also one last comment that um you know the u.s strategic planners had figured that the soviet union did not have that um intercontinental ballistic missiles and they said that they will probably get them in 1964.

1:38:45 right yeah that's critical in terms of understanding why chris jeff had to get those missiles he could hit us with intermediate but they didn't have the icbms and the u.s avoided the boys at strategic air command know that yeah right yeah so that's absolutely critical in understanding their the timing uh and uh why they felt they could get away with nuclear first strikes because they did have a continental advantage and that window was seen as awkward

1:39:13 as closing in 1964 which bears directly on all the jfk stuff yeah you're right you're right zen go ahead yeah there was an incident i believe it was november of 1983 where the soviet uh radar systems detected it was a glitch yeah they detected a uh u.s strike incoming yeah and we almost had armageddon then but uh luckily the soviet officer

1:39:43 I believe he skirted the protocol a little bit and waited until it came online. Can you explain that a little bit? Well, we've always had a hotline between U.S. and the Soviet Union, and we still have it today, for verification. And they used that protocol in order to confirm that.

1:40:10 And that that's been the case ever since they've had the ability to reach the United States with nuclear weapons is that protocol was set up for those exact scenarios. So. And then the Soviet sub commander during the Cuban missile crisis, the United States destroyers were using like sub munitions to try to bring this submarine up.

1:40:40 that was ghosting the american fleet and uh it was a soviet nuke boat and basically they were like dropping like m80s or quarter sticks of dynamite type sub munitions and the soviets thought they were being depth charged i can't remember that sub commander's name but yeah there's they said he like saved us there too yeah there's been a few

1:41:08 um california go ahead then i've really got to run guys hi thank you thank you colonel um i just have a quick question uh regarding the transcripts of the generals uh uh talking about how they wanted to to just nuke everything are those transcripts publicly available so um most of them i've been in books that i've read um there's not like a collection of them laying around

1:41:34 um like most of them have been referenced in um books that i've read so i'm not aware of um the but like uh all along said the book um dark sun does a great job of articulating um this this whole conversation that we're having and who is the author um i don't remember richard rose

1:42:05 there you go richard roach yeah thank you thank you yeah thank you carol you're welcome all right guys great space um we'll be back tomorrow at four o'clock and um i do have um hold on just a second wanted to don't forget to repost the space and hit the like button over on or the thumbs up button over on rumble yes thank you um okay so um

1:42:35 We have tomorrow's space, we have Wednesday's space, and then Alpha Warriors show at 9.30 on Wednesday. I do have a couple of new shows coming up. One's on Thursday. I'll give you a little bit more information about that tomorrow. It's called Tommy's Podcast. I've not ever done that, and I'm trying to set up another one later on. And then we'll have...

1:43:04 war hamster and eyes hopefully if he's feeling up to it um please keep him in your prayers you guys he had um an incident and um had to go into emergency surgery and have a hip replacement um so please keep him in your prayers um hopefully that we're not going to have it on thursday because i had a conflict that secret societies at noon on my rumble channel

1:43:30 um you can get it here on x you just can't interface with me it's just coming over here on a live feed the actual interface will be over on rumble at the colonel's corner on friday at noon um where we've done a whole series of shows about secret societies we did skull and bones and we're basically getting to the end of scrolling key the two secret societies at yale

1:43:55 And then we're going to hit the foundations pretty hard after that and do a deep dive into them like the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and all of those. Because, of course, as you guys have realized, the CIA is intimately involved in all of those foundations in the use of the money throughout the entire existence of the CIA. So that's what we got going on.

1:44:23 I will see you guys tomorrow at four o'clock. Thanks for being here. Take care. See ya.

Entities here

Claims made here

Walter B. Jones Jr. did_business_with Lloyd Bentsen book_quoted ▶ 1:37

“and also running to retain his Senate seat just in case they lost. That's when Dukakis was running for president. Benson's senatorial campaign headquarters was in Michener's corporate headquarters. Mi…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. laundered_money_for Lloyd Bentsen book_quoted ▶ 2:11

“purchased an apartment building in a Houston suburb from Benson for an undisclosed sum of cash and a promissory note of about $250,000. Money laundering to the politician. There were other indirect bu…”

Jack Trotter member_of Allied Bank of Houston book_quoted ▶ 2:42

“and former chairman of Michener's flagship bank, Allied Bank of Houston, was an administrator on one of Benson's blind investment trusts while he was in office. One of Benson's investments was in the …”

Lincoln Consolidated sold_to Koch Industries book_quoted ▶ 3:13

“Michener's company ended up owning a Houston savings and loan that had belonged to Benson's company. It was called Benjamin Franklin Savings. It was owned by Benson's holding company called Lincoln Co…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. acquired Benjamin Franklin Savings book_quoted ▶ 3:43

“sold the savings and loan to IC Industries of Chicago. In 78, the Michener Corporation bought Benjamin Franklin Savings from the Chicago entity that it was sold to, IC Industries. And that was, it say…”

George H.W. Bush relationship_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 4:43

“The exact relationship between Michener and President Bush was a mystery. Michener acknowledged having known Bush for a long time, but he says he was never particularly close to him. And you're also g…”

Robert Corson married Paula Michener book_quoted ▶ 5:14

“Several people who were familiar with the CIA believe that Michener engineered the involvement of his former son-in-law, Robert Corson. And remember what I said, out of the three names of his daughter…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. recruited Robert Corson book_quoted ▶ 5:14

George H.W. Bush headed CIA book_quoted ▶ 5:45

“while he was CIA director. A Washington lawyer familiar with the CIA told the reporter, the author of this book, that Corson's work for the CIA began in 1976 when Michener's friend Bush was director. …”

Robert Corson laundered_money_for CIA book_quoted ▶ 5:45

George H.W. Bush operated_in Safari Club host_asserted ▶ 7:12

“comes into play. It's not talked about in this book, but I just want to give you guys a reminder. The Safari Club was set up by Aiden Khashoggi in Kenya, and Bush was a key player in it. And it basica…”

George H.W. Bush relationship_with Robert Corson book_quoted ▶ 7:41

“And that's around the same time this Robert Corson begins a relationship with George Bush Sr. And as we're going to find out, he's money laundering basically for CIA activities, which kind of makes pe…”

George H.W. Bush relationship_with Albert Bell Frey book_quoted ▶ 11:44

“and the Republican Party in Houston. The event was the death of Albert Bell Frey, who passed away while he was on vacation. Bush described the late Houston businessman, Bell Frey, former U.S. ambassad…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with Albert Bell Frey book_quoted ▶ 12:10

“Bush said Frey was his close personal friend and leader in building the Republican Party in Houston. And keep in mind, Trinidad and Tobago, even back then, was a drug trafficking hub. Michener has als…”

Albert Bell Frey member_of West Belt National Bank book_quoted ▶ 12:10

William Blakemore headed Gulf and Caribbean Foundation book_quoted ▶ 13:14

“with President Bush. One of Bush's oldest and closest friends is the previously mentioned Midland, Texas oilman, William Blakemore. Blakemore was a fierce supporter of the Nicaraguan Contras and was p…”

Gulf and Caribbean Foundation funded Nicaragua book_quoted ▶ 13:44

“which we all know Bush Sr. was very involved in because he was running that operation out of the office of the vice president. A paper found in Oliver North's White House safe diagramming the private …”

Oliver North member_of National Security Council book_quoted ▶ 14:47

“The Gulf and Caribbean Foundation hired Michael Ledeen to write a booklet on the situation in Latin America. Michael Ledeen has come up several times in our conversations as well. They were focused on…”

Michael Ledeen member_of National Security Council book_quoted ▶ 14:47

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with William Blakemore book_quoted ▶ 16:56

“has said that he knows mitchner well and said he gave a little money to his foundation one supporting a desert museum in far west texas but mitchner when asked if he knew blake moore said yeah i know …”

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with Jimmy Lyon book_quoted ▶ 18:29

“Lyons is also a banker. He is mentioned at least four times in Oliver Norse's diary in connection with fundraising for the Contras. Lyon and Michener are also longtime good friends. Lyon said they had…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with Robert Mosbacher book_quoted ▶ 18:29

Walter B. Jones Jr. funded George H.W. Bush book_quoted ▶ 19:30

“Walter Michener was the largest fundraiser in the country for Ronald Reagan and George Bush, collecting more than $3 million for their campaign, including $2.8 million in one fundraising dinner alone …”

Walter B. Jones Jr. funded Ronald Reagan book_quoted ▶ 19:30

Jimmy Lyon relationship_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 20:01

“Harrison County contributors. Michener was introduced to the circle of Brahmin Houston Republicans like Bush, James Baker III, and Mosbacher by Lyons and Tony Robinson. Robinson, another banker, he wa…”

Tony Robbins relationship_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 20:01

Neil Bush relationship_with Walter Michener Jr. book_quoted ▶ 21:00

“Walt Mishner Jr. were very good friends. A Houston newspaper gossip column confirmed that Neil and Walt Jr. had lunch and dinner together often all over Houston. The two sons of Neil and Walt Jr. also…”

Charles Pickett member_of Allied Bank of Houston book_quoted ▶ 23:05

“Bank Savings and Loan Association in Denver. Charles Pickett appeared as one of the two expert witnesses on his behalf. Pickett was the former general counsel to Michener's Allied Bank Share Company. …”

Charles Pickett member_of Federal Deposit Insurance System book_quoted ▶ 23:33

“The Office of Thrift Supervision attorneys incredibly did not question either Neal or Pickett about it. Before joining Allied Bank Shares, Pickett was a regional counsel for the Dallas region of the F…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. member_of Braniff Airlines book_quoted ▶ 25:38

“um area at one time in the early 1980s he served on the board of braniff airlines he had a long time working relationship with a guy by the name of howard terry they were stockholders in marathon manu…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. did_business_with Howard Terry book_quoted ▶ 25:38

Walter B. Jones Jr. sold_to First Interstate Bank book_quoted ▶ 27:48

“billion dollars. He had more than 40 subsidiaries across Texas. He was the largest stockholder of the bank with 5% of the common shares and was chairman of the holding company Allied Bank Shares. When…”

Walter Michener Jr. member_of Federal Reserve Bank of New York book_quoted ▶ 28:21

“examiners to run his banks and has a long time connection to the top echelons of federal banking regulatory entities his son walt jr had been a director of the houston bank of the houston branch sorry…”

Robert Sterling Clark relationship_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 28:49

“The former U.S. Comptroller of the Currency, Robert Clark, who was not reconfirmed by the Senate in 1991, but stayed on until 1992 because Bush had not named a replacement, was a good friend of Michen…”

Robert Sterling Clark member_of Allied Bank of Houston book_quoted ▶ 28:49

Robert Sterling Clark member_of Bracewell and Patterson book_quoted ▶ 29:19

“both federally and within the state of Texas. In 1974, Clark, then an attorney in Houston, and his brother-in-law, D. Kent Anderson, was also a top executive at Allied Bank. They invested together in …”

Walter Michener Jr. member_of First Continental Real Estate Investment Trust book_quoted ▶ 29:51

“Oh my gosh. Clark was a lawyer for Bracewell and Patterson, a Houston law firm that did the majority of Michener's legal work. At one time, Clark was buying and selling stock in First Continental Real…”

Robert Sterling Clark member_of Federal Deposit Insurance System book_quoted ▶ 30:19

“after he became the comptroller. So basically, he was kind of owned by Menchner. Although Clark's office does not oversee state-chartered banks like Allied, he did sit on the board of the Federal Depo…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with Marcello Family book_quoted ▶ 36:19

“was written about in a book called Shadow of the Alamo by a Washington investigative reporter by the name of Katz, who picked up on the significance of Michener faster than most people in Texas. Katz …”

Carlos Marcello did_business_with Kenneth Schnitzer book_quoted ▶ 37:18

“The retired intelligence division officers confirmed that Michener and Marcellos knew each other, met often, and had mutual business interests. They also said that Marcello had contact with other powe…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. did_business_with Carlos Marcello book_quoted ▶ 37:18

Kenneth Schnitzer acquired Tommy Atkins book_quoted ▶ 37:46

“They would sometimes stay at the Stouffer Hotel, which was developed by Schnitzner. Schnitzner, who had a number of business connections with Michener, bought a savings and loan in a suburb of Houston…”

Tommy Atkins did_business_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 37:46

Kenneth Schnitzer did_business_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 37:46

Kenneth Schnitzer did_business_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 38:17

“And I have been very close, Snitchner said. I think the only business transaction that we did together was the development of a merchandise mart. I have never done any other business with Mitchner or …”

George H.W. Bush did_business_with BCCI book_quoted ▶ 38:51

“And this is something that was hilarious. Allied Bank Building, where Michener's Bank Holding Company was headquartered, was also the building where the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, BCCI…”

BCCI located_in Allied Bank book_quoted ▶ 38:51

Saddam Hussein did_business_with BCCI book_quoted ▶ 39:23

“along with Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, and all of the drug kingpins, their Houston branch was in the same building with Michener. That's crazy. In 1990, Snitchner was a partner with Walt Michener …”

Manuel Noriega did_business_with BCCI book_quoted ▶ 39:23

Kenneth Schnitzer did_business_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 39:23

Joseph Marcello lived_in Stouffer Hotel book_quoted ▶ 40:24

“carlos marcelo's son was in town he said the marcellos would register into the stouffer and then go to a party in snitchner's penthouse but again convenient amnesia he had mafia guys come into his pen…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. relationship_with Carlos Marcello book_quoted ▶ 40:57

“Definitely in existence because he had been in it. When Mary Flood and the author interviewed Michener in 1987 for an article in the Houston Post, he asked him about his relationship with Carlos Marce…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. did_business_with Howard Terry book_quoted ▶ 41:29

“Mishner said Marcello, whom he described as short, squatty, and Italian, wanted to buy two Houston hotels from him. Mishner and his partner, Howard Terry, who owned the Coronado Hotel and the Carousel…”

Carlos Marcello did_business_with Walter B. Jones Jr. book_quoted ▶ 41:29

NASA operated_in Carousel Hotel book_quoted ▶ 41:55

“The hotel was located in downtown close to the Hobby Airport. It was supposed to be the modern hip-swinging hotel. It was actively involved in prostitution. It was also where, according to the author,…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. sold_to John Kenneth Coyle book_quoted ▶ 42:59

“Houston Intercontinental Airport opened north of the city. The Hobby Airport was closed for a short time. The carousel died on the vine during that time. That's when Marcello came around saying he wan…”

John Kenneth Coyle relationship_with Marcello Family book_quoted ▶ 43:30

“Coyle, a disbarred attorney who had been convicted of pornography for offering X-rated movies in the hotel rooms. A sergeant in the vice division of the Houston Police Department said Coyle was an ass…”

Walter B. Jones Jr. sold_to John Kenneth Coyle book_quoted ▶ 44:02

“He had one called the San Antonio Inn in Louisiana, which is where we find Herman Beebe, as well as the Marcello family. He had another one called the Town and Country, which was supposedly where Marc…”

John Kenneth Coyle operated_in San Antonio book_quoted ▶ 44:02

Herman Beebe lived_in San Antonio book_quoted ▶ 44:02

Carlos Marcello lived_in Town and Country Motel book_quoted ▶ 44:02

Charles Harrelson lived_in Carousel Hotel book_quoted ▶ 46:04

“Craig and Rogers state in their book that after the assassination, the CIA agent had called Harrelson, quote, who was staying at another Carlos Marcelo-owned rest stop, the Carousel Hotel. The Carouse…”

Carousel Hotel operated_in Carlos Marcello book_quoted ▶ 46:04

Walter B. Jones Jr. did_business_with Marcello Family book_quoted ▶ 46:33

“After the 1987 interview with Michener, the author talked to two other people who confirmed Michener's relationship to the Marcello family. One, a former Michener employee and close personal friend, s…”

Brown Rice headed Hofbro Steakhouse book_quoted ▶ 47:01

“That steakhouse was called the Hofbro and was owned by a man called Brown Rice. Who was Brown Rice? Who would do that? Was a partner in the Victorian House Hotel in Belize with Albert Belfray, the guy…”

Brown Rice did_business_with Albert Belfray book_quoted ▶ 47:01

Albert Belfray relationship_with George H.W. Bush book_quoted ▶ 47:01

Murchison family relationship_with J. Edgar Hoover host_asserted ▶ 49:00

“Kennedy, it's interesting how kind of in the background of all of this, there's the Murchison family. If I recall correctly, they're mentioned once or twice in the index of this book. And the Murchiso…”

Richard Helms relationship_with Sam Halpern host_asserted ▶ 1:07:41

“You know, sparring pure CIA propaganda from Sam Halpern, Richard Helms' right-hand man. And again, so it's, again, it's no accident that right now, you know, the left is not talking about the CIA at a…”

Frank Tolbert member_of Strategic Air Command host_asserted ▶ 1:13:09

“This is the first I've seen you myself. I was Air Force 1966 to 1970. I was in the 509th Bomb Wing SAC, which is no longer around. But I saw Colonel, so I thought, okay, I'm going to jump in there and…”

Frank Tolbert worked_at Grissom Air Reserve Base host_asserted ▶ 1:13:32

“Say, and I see it's a she, what was your AFSC, Colonel? Well, I started out in aircraft maintenance. I, too, was assigned to a SAC base at Grissom on KC-135s. I did aircraft maintenance for six years …”

Frank Tolbert operated_in Vietnam host_asserted ▶ 1:15:34

“um squadron at grissom and i was at the tech school at chenute um as an instructor um they had all been there yeah yeah yeah it was uh seven uh seven days a week 12 hours yeah hours a day on the fligh…”

Frank Tolbert operated_in Guam host_asserted ▶ 1:15:34

Frank Tolbert studied_at Chanute Air Force Base host_asserted ▶ 1:15:34

1968 KC-135 crash on Wake Island occurred_at Wake Island host_asserted ▶ 1:16:02

“Thailand in 68. And you were talking about the case. Now, well, the 8 model was still around when you started out, right? You may have heard about this, but I'm going to tell you. 1968, September 28th…”

Thomas S. Power headed Strategic Air Command host_asserted ▶ 1:18:49

“still in charge of that in 1966? Because, you know, he's an exceptionally interesting dude, general, Air Force general, who, you know, was, you know, sort of the protege of Curtis LeMay and was seen b…”

Thomas S. Power relationship_with Curtis LeMay host_asserted ▶ 1:18:49

Thomas S. Power retired_from Strategic Air Command host_asserted ▶ 1:20:49

“yeah i mean i know who powers is i've read about him historically um but um yeah he retired in 64. so yeah he is um but i i found that interesting in reading and of course that's not the reading we're…”

Frank Tolbert worked_at Udorn Air Force Base host_asserted ▶ 1:24:10

“Frank, go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to tell that gentleman. When I was in from 66 to 70, the base in the States that I went to was Pease Air Force Base, New Hampshire. New Hampshire. And most every SAC ba…”

Operation Cyanide describes USS Liberty incident book_quoted ▶ 1:25:40

“You're absolutely right. They were locked and ready to go anytime. And we found that out when we did the book Operation Cyanide. If you guys remember about the USS Liberty, that they had the B-52 out …”

April Glaspie told Saddam Hussein host_asserted ▶ 1:30:08

“conflict over that oil, what happened was Kuwait was horizontally drilling into Iraq's oil and pumping it as if it was Kuwaiti oil. And it had been a long standing feud between the two. And so she tol…”

United States invaded Kuwait host_asserted ▶ 1:30:34

“that the U.S. wouldn't have a problem with that. And then that's exactly what he did. And then, of course, we launched Desert Storm 1. So, yeah, that's absolutely true. California, go ahead. Hi. Yes. …”

Nelson Rockefeller headed Operations Coordination Board host_asserted ▶ 1:35:53

“something that is not discussed very much but was a really very real presence as an option say between 1955 and 1964 um in 1955 you know nelson rockefeller as you know i mentioned before he was in cha…”

Nelson Rockefeller wrote Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb host_asserted ▶ 1:36:48

“Nelson's boy, Nelson Rockefeller, wrote a book on nuclear policy in, I believe, you know, 57, 58 period that is very close to, you know, kind of legitimizing nuclear first strike ideas. Right. And the…”

Strategic Air Command planned_attack_on Egypt book_quoted ▶ 1:37:48

“barely controlled. And if the American public sees that along with the assassination, it's a whole different game in terms of the connotations for U.S. politics right now. Right. I don't know that I w…”

Soviet Union detected_false_alarm United States host_asserted ▶ 1:39:13

“as closing in 1964 which bears directly on all the jfk stuff yeah you're right you're right zen go ahead yeah there was an incident i believe it was november of 1983 where the soviet uh radar systems …”