The Colonel's Corner Safe for Democracy Part 48 (50)

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Transcript

0:02 Okay. My hair's a mess. Oh, well. Just sent the grandbaby off for the day. And I need to say this up front. We're going to have to just do the lesson with a little bit of comment right after because we have tonight, this evening.

0:36 a honor flight coming in to Lakeland Linder, our airport here, and they're doing a car show with all of the old cars. So we are going to be there to meet the airplane. So I'll have to sign off much sooner than I normally do, but I didn't want to miss the show. So we're going to go ahead and get started. And will you be having a show tomorrow? Wink, wink, nod, nod. Yes. So for those of you who don't know,

1:05 I will be on the Alex Jones show, his podcast, tomorrow for an hour at 1 o'clock. So, there's the news. Breaking your heard and hear. Yeah, obviously talking about Operation Gladio. Okay, so we're on page 561, Project Democracy, still talking about Nicaragua. And the next part, I'm going to...

1:35 say a little bit about it, but we're not going to go through all of it. It talks about all of the setbacks that they were having equipment-wise. For example, you know, we talked about them moving basically the operation to Costa Rica, and it just so happens to be rainy season in Costa Rica. Everything's muddy. They get aircraft stuck in the mud, and you have Felix Rodriguez down there sending

2:04 classified information over open lines, which of course then the NSA would pick up. And basically everybody's pissed off with everybody else. So one of the pilots that was frustrated with the whole thing wrote a whole bunch of stuff down. And he basically said that the maintenance people that they had there sucked.

2:33 And the letter was addressed to Felix Rodriguez. Felix ends up in Oliver North's office in early May. And he's basically wanting to throw the towel in, according to the author. And also, Dutton, D-U-T-T-O-N, the guy that we discovered had come in as part of the air operations.

3:02 during the part we were talking about yesterday, said that Max is the only problem. Dutton felt Felix did not understand the concept of the overall operation. North asked Dutton to have Rodriguez come to see him. Max Gomez presented himself, and of course, that's Felix Rodriguez.

3:33 In the old executive office building on June 25th, Rodriguez had a problem just getting into the White House gate. I'm not sure I believe that either because he was reporting to Donald Gregg and he was in Donald Gregg's office all the time. And his office was the national security advisor for Vice President George Bush, but whatever. North accused him of violating security because of the open phone communications.

4:07 Rodriguez had the letter blaming maintenance. And North looked at the letter and said, is this a joke? And Felix said that the writers of the letter that was complaining about the maintenance, which of course are the pilots, said that they had almost been killed. They weren't almost killed. They just landed in a sloppy airfield and the aircraft sunk. That didn't endanger their life.

4:36 Then Felix Rodriguez asked to speak to North alone. After Dunton left, Felix said, Colonel, I've learned there's some stealing going on here. Oliver North turned his television set tuned to the congressional debate over the $100 million CIA project request. North pointed to the TV and said, those people want me, but they can't have me because the old man loves my ass.

5:07 Max Gomez, i.e. Felix Rodriguez, went back to El Salvador. Dutton had made the chief pilot in charge of maintenance as well. The Enterprise had sent the damaged C-123, the one that sunk in the mud, to Southern Air Transport for repairs while they searched for another aircraft. Cooper and a mechanic went to Evergreen Aviation.

5:39 my old company, to check out other aircraft that they could quote-unquote borrow. Cooper's crew also made their first successful airdrop to the southern front with Buzz Sawyer flying that aircraft. The C-7 had such a short range that after the drop, it had to land at San Jose, Costa Rica to refuel. The Costa Ricans had not given permission.

6:11 but eventually gave him the fuel anyway because Joe Fernandez stepped in. Relations between Felix Rodriguez and the Enterprise was very rocky. Rodriguez asked what had happened to the Salvadoran end-user certificates for the missiles, only to be told they were delayed. Leaving Project Democracy, Felix Rodriguez's actions permanently affected the Enterprise.

6:41 He told Bermudez to consider Secord's planes FDN property. At Ipilopango, Rodriguez arranged for armed guards on each flight to ensure that the planes didn't divert from their mission. In Washington, on August 8th, Rodriguez met with Donald Gregg with some reason to suppose his remarks would reach Vice President Bush, who had a real...

7:10 association with the Nicaraguan War. Bush had visited with the Contra commanders at an airfield in Honduras in March of 85. Gregg continued to keep him apprised of conditions in Central America. Rodriguez went over the ground he had covered with North. Felix said that Mr. Gad is engaged in a ripoff. Gregg immediately called North's office and

7:37 Oliver North's deputy listened to the outrageous charges from Greg via Felix Rodriguez. We're supposed to believe that Felix Rodriguez, the trained assassin, cares about money. Greg followed up in CIA and Pentagon channels a few days later. The charges of this money embezzlement.

8:05 was talked about at the highest levels of government. A few days later, Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Earl, who was serving as North's deputy at the time, along with Dutton, met with Colonel James Steele. Dutton asked Steele to retrieve Rodriguez's KL-43, that encrypted device he wasn't allowed to have. The big break for...

8:32 Aldolfo Calero came when Congress finally passed the $100 million contra aid appropriation. The NSC staff operators celebrated it, but there was less to celebrate than met the eye. Oliver North had been quite correct that more people would become inquisitive over the operation. Below the surface, there were more maneuvering. North and Secord conferred about Operation Democracy's assets in the context of the CIA.

9:03 Secord discussed this with Dutton, who wrote a paper summarizing assets and stating the options. The aircraft and field at Santa Elena, plus all of the other enterprise holdings, were estimated at about $4.5 million. The options were to sell them, give them to the CIA, or lease them to the CIA. North raised the CIA purchase idea with Poindexter in July.

9:31 at Langley, Bob Gates, who had replaced John McMahon as the deputy DCI, received the data on the covert operation as if they didn't have it already because Casey's intimately involved with it. Alan Fires objected that the plane and other equipment were old and shouldn't be bought by the CIA. That's weird because all of their equipment is old. Meanwhile, numerous long distance

10:01 Telephone calls between San Salvador and Washington complemented every active flight program. Drop zones remained elusive. But in August, Fernandez managed another mission to the Southern Front. Again, the aircraft landed at San Jose, where Fernandez and U.S. military chief handled all of the permissions. Southern Front leaders now began to line up at Joe Fernandez's door. But the flight program itself.

10:31 could potentially disrupt Project Democracy, not just from the fact of it being in existence, but also because of what they were carrying. There were persistent reports of drug trafficking by the Contras, with drugs transported by the pilots returning stateside. The DEA supposedly was actively investigating, but we know that's not true.

10:57 We know that emphatically is not true. One DEA agent was, and he was removed. The author then goes on to say, in the 1990s, the CIA IG looked into these reports. He could not substantiate them, but his conclusions were disputed by DEA agents, one, not plural, and even alleged participants. Just one drug bust would have blown Project Democracy wide open. And again,

11:30 This is the CIA IG saying that he couldn't substantiate it, even though the DEA had received multiple cables from the one DEA agent in Costa Rica who went and scoped out El Pelopango and said, dude, they're flying drugs out of here. Director Casey perhaps overlooked these developments. Casey had much on his plate. One night, Casey called at home.

12:02 and ask Alan Fiers to lunch the next day. Their conversation proved unusual. Casey noted the rumors, tried to assure him they were false, and then asked Fiers to put out propaganda to counter them. Meanwhile, Costa Rica installed a new government in May of 86. Its presidents had a peace plan to replace the stalled peace efforts of the surrounding area.

12:31 He was someone that was referred to as a neutralist. On September 3rd, police seized the plantation airstrip and blocked its runway. North soon learned that the Costa Ricans planned a news conference to reveal the base. He spoke to Elliott Abrams, who tracked down Ambassador Tams on vacation. And the three held a midnight conference call after Tams phoned the president, Oscar Reyes Sanchez.

13:00 and persuaded him to cancel the press conference. At the very moment, North scampered to avoid a press notice that would have blown the project another way. Bob Dutton participated in what could have turned out to be another security breach. He had gone to El Pelopengo on September 8th to get a feel for what the operations were like.

13:28 As part of that visit, Dutton went along on a supply flight, another abortive mission that found no one. It was rainy. The ceiling was barely 1,500 feet. The plane searched for an hour. And by the KL-43, the encrypted device, on September 9th, Dutton asked North for help in locating the Southern Front troops. Oliver North replied that he'd have to consult Joe Fernandez. But then the airlift got lucky.

13:57 On September 13th, Dutton reported on the encrypted device that Project Democracy had delivered 55,000 pounds of supplies. Through the rest of the month, perhaps seven loads were checked out of the warehouse and delivered to the Southern Front. Alan Fiers at Langley learned of the drops. When Dutton was reporting the results to North, the White House man realized he had gone into Nicaragua.

14:28 Oliver North said, you went on that mission? North felt Dutton knew too much and prohibited him from flying anymore. As with complaints to Felix Rodriguez about phone calls, this was part of North's great concern about security issues. A disgruntled participant or the passage of time might threaten to blow the cover of Project Democracy. Suddenly in September, the project personnel were asked to sign.

14:58 Secret agreements, the ones that are used by the CIA. The time came on October 5th, 86. That day, one of the C-123s had laid on to deliver supplies to the FDN patrols. The marker was to be used as a smoke signal. Bill Cooper and Buzz Sawyer piloted the aircraft with Eugene Hasenfuss as the loadmaster.

15:28 Cooper flew without standard evasive tactics against anti-aircraft missiles. That day, his luck ran out. The plane overthrew, flew a Sandinista unit that was hit by a missile and crashed. Hassan Fuss, even in Laos, known for precautions to guard his safety, happened to be the only air crew wearing a parachute. He jumped and survived, but was captured. Unaware of the actual instigators of Project Democracy, Hassan Fuss

15:57 told the Sandinistas his plane belonged to the CIA. In Washington, it was like an explosion. The Reagan administration circled the wagons. Elliott Abrams' office tried to attribute the plane operation to General Singlem and claimed the U.S. had nothing to do with it. Singlem denied knowledge. The CIA denied any involvement whatsoever. At every step came fresh indications of U.S. government ties.

16:25 Buzz Sawyer's flight log recovered from the wreckage showed that he had performed flights for the U.S. military with Southern Air. It also showed that Southern Air transport personnel, including its president, William Langton, along for some of the Contra flights. Business cards in the wreckage also connected the State Department. The plane itself, tail number N4410F, was the same aircraft used in the drug entrapment schemes.

16:54 perpetrated on the Sandinistas in 1984. They hadn't forgotten. Joe Fernandez wired Dunton demanding damage control. North, then John Poindexter, intervened with justice to delay FBI and Customs investigation of Southern Air Transport, where the second Project Democracy C-123 sat. John McRaney flew the aircraft out.

17:26 out of El Pelopengo. Secord alleges that Langley decided to take over Project Democracy assets. Oliver North met with CIA officials on October 9th. The agency actually did purchase for $1.2 million the group's last weapon shipment that was on the aircraft. Official inquiries were inevitable.

17:56 On October 8th, Robert Gates appeared before the Senate Intelligence Committee. He insisted the CIA had nothing to do with the Hassan bus plane and gave background data on Cooper and Sawyer. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee set a hearing for October 10th, and the House Committee was four days later. At numerous Langley meetings, officials tried to determine how to approach this. Casey and Claire George and the task force chief

18:24 Alan Fiers decided George would be the respondent. I wonder if they drew straws. The cable with details on Felix Rodriguez reached George early enough to be included in his briefing book. But George ordered Fiers to edit out his statement of anything that would draw attention to White House connections. Fiers worried because the testimony said Secord had hired the same people and used the same bases.

18:52 as the State Department. Removing that would clearly be misleading if George was to tell Congress, as he did, that the CIA knew nothing about the Contra Supply Network. When Jerry Gruner told the deputy that Joe Fernandez admitted phone records would reveal many contacts between his CIA station and the Secord organization because he was running it the entire time.

19:22 Far from knowing nothing about the benefactors, George actually had a former Secord employee in the DO Air Branch at the CIA. The man had helped set up El Pelopengo base. Immediately after Hasenfus shot down, he had been ordered to make himself scarce and talk to no one. George offered his first set of denials on October 10th. On October 14th, Claire George and Alan Fiers repeated their disclaimers to Congress.

19:53 Norman Gardner Jr., one of the deputy DO's special assistants, had just debriefed the air branch officer and sat among George's entourage as he framed ignorance. George denied knowing Secord or any of the people that was associated with him and asserted that he had learned of the supply operation in the newspapers. That's a very familiar refrain. Alan Fiers made similar denials.

20:22 of knowing who Max Gomez really was. Yet they all knew it was Felix Rodriguez. He also denied any knowledge about the operation at Ilopango. Elliott Abrams, who testified for state, also claimed no knowledge or assistance to Secord and said that he first heard of the general in that day's press.

20:51 At the Senate Intelligence Committee on December 3rd, George declared that he had learned of Richard Secord only after the fact. In a post-Hawk ass-covering attempt on December 5th, the CIA General Counsel issued an opinion claiming that while Contras with the private benefactors might have been contrary to policy, they weren't illegal. The opinion was a preemptive strike at the Bolin Amendment. All three officials were

21:21 eventually indicted for false testimony in front of Congress. Fires and Abrams pleaded guilty to reduced charges. Claire George was found guilty on two of the 10 counts at a second trial after a hung jury. George's testimony on October 14th, a specific focus of the guilty findings, amply condemned him. A count of perjury for December testimony was dismissed.

21:49 Meanwhile, phone records tied North explicitly to all of the actions. Inquiries in El Salvador quickly revealed that Max Gomez was Felix Rodriguez and led directly to Donald Gregg in Vice President Bush's office. As if that weren't enough, the Iranian side of the enterprise activities simultaneously surfaced. Finally, the discovery of a North memo discussing diversion of Iran arms.

22:18 funds to benefit the Contras triggered another round of investigations. The revelation of the Iranian side of the affair, beginning with articles in the Middle Eastern press, further busted administration's efforts to keep a lid on. By November 10th, the need for official acknowledgement had become so plain that President Reagan held a White House meeting to discuss a response. Several days later, Reagan spoke to the nation in a televised address in the Oval Office.

22:47 attacking wildly speculative false stories and characterizing the Iran arms cell as a small amount of defensive weapons. Missiles are defensive weapons? He also went on to say that they could fit in a single airplane, which was completely untrue because there were multiple shipments and large aircraft. And on November 19th at a news conference, Reagan affirmed the accuracy of more claims.

23:18 That were false, that the U.S. had not traded weapons for hostages, that no third countries had been involved, and only two shipments had been made. He continued to minimize the sales, claiming that the weapons sold had been only about half the actual number, which again was not true. With the administration rushing to prepare for congressional briefings of fresh CIA testimony directly from William Casey,

23:48 The hours now ticked too quickly for the secret war wizards. James McCullough headed to the DCI's executive staff at the time with formal responsibility for drafting Casey's testimony. He believes that Casey might have muddled through had it not been for Casey's exhaustion. When the Iran revelations began, Casey, on a trip to Central America, had been out of pocket and unprepared.

24:16 Claire George assigned two DO officers to make an initial review of the Iranian side of the mess, which George briefed to the Senate Intel Committee on November 18, three days ahead of Casey's scheduled appearance. McCullough and David Greese, Langley's congressional liaison, sat in the briefing and came away amazed. They had known nothing about this. McCullough really hit the roof, however, when he found

24:47 Two of George's staff muttering about how he had not told the Senate intelligence people anything about the November 1985 arms shipment, which, as earlier noted, had not been supported by any presidential finding at all. The deputy director of the CIA, Bob Gates, had ordered that everything be included in the brief, and everyone thought it would be. No one understood why George had avoided telling the Senate staff about that part.

25:16 Even as Langley's leadership went through gyrations trying to square the testimony, differences developed on the accuracy of Casey's testimony. The director, not a great moderator, did a poor job reigning in the CIA chiefdoms who wanted to march off in different directions.

25:39 Casey also proved ineffective at editing his own testimony. George Shultz, who felt he was battling the forces of darkness in this crisis for American democracy, had no confidence in the CIA testimony that Langley would not even permit him to see. Shultz demanded and received a draft the evening before Casey made his final changes. Shultz believed his main fight to be with the NSC staff

26:07 That had developed an operational role, but Casey's CIA formed a mighty distraction. When Schultz finally saw the document, and it was laden with things that he had not known, that the agency had kept from the State Department, for his part, Casey went an eyes-only letter to Reagan, objecting to the Secretary of State's public pouting, demanding a new pitcher, recommending that Reagan replace Schultz with someone like Jean Kirkpatrick.

26:34 At Langley, Jim McCullough, dismayed when he saw the letter, objected to sending it. Casey's secretary told the staff director he held a copy. The original had already gone out. That afternoon, McCullough was startled again by the White House Chief of Staff, Don Regan, who came to Langley for an unprecedented visit with Casey. Unknown to McCullough, Attorney General Edwin Meese's investigators now had evidence that Oliver North had diverted Iran arms money to the Contras.

27:04 Shortly after Reagan's one-on-one visit with Casey, the director, who had already spoken to Meese, left for home. He stopped at the White House. George Shultz found that session bizarre. Officials spouting fantasy, talking about Iran scheme as a correct policy that needed to continue. Adding in good measure was a tilt towards Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war. Shultz quotes the president.

27:33 We are right, Reagan pounded the table. We had to take the opportunity and we were successful. Reagan held a news conference on November 25th when Edwin Meese proceeded to tell the world of the diversion. Iran-Contra affair had burst into the open. The controversy first forced Reagan into a new clarification and basically covering up still most of the covert operations.

28:03 Its main point was to ensure the NSC staff had no role in carrying out any of these activities except for they had. Iran-Contra also called into question the system of presidential findings. One arm cell had been completely unauthorized, justified only after the fact in a retrospective finding. Another action, Attorney General Meese said, had been authorized by a mental finding.

28:34 Existing regulations already provided that all findings had to be written. Some Iranian arms deal were not briefed to Congress for months, effectively an escalation of Casey's high-handed practices, like the Nicaraguan mining. Through the remainder of Reagan's presidency, there would be frustrating dialogue between the White House and CIA and the oversight committees on the nature of findings. Congress succeeded in setting criteria for the information to be included.

29:03 but the White House stonewalled on timely notification. Legislation put into law a requirement that Congress be informed of any covert operation within 48 hours past the Senate in 88, but stalled in the House. If Bill Casey had survived, he would surely have been prosecuted. Instead, on December 15th, Casey suffered a seizure. Over the next few months, he was in and out of the hospital. Casey died.

29:33 In May of 1987, he never saw the final denouncement. President Reagan would make many apologies. The Iran-Contra effectively turned him into a lame duck. Poindexter and North resigned. There would be congressional hearings aplenty, joint investigations, special prosecutors. By the time Claire George had been convicted and Casper Weinberger indicted, George H.W. Bush was president.

30:00 On Christmas Eve of 1992, Bush suddenly pardoned a series of figures, including Weinberger, George, Dewey, Claridge, Elliott Abrams, Robert McFarlane, and Alan Fiers. That marked the end of a season of inquiries. So every single person that had done the operation with Bush knowing the entire operation was being done was pardoned when Bush became president.

30:29 Project Democracy never existed in a vacuum. The purpose had always been to reach the bright future when the CIA would be able to fight again. It was just to hold them over. Bill Casey wanted that, even if he sometimes played coy. The CIA did nothing to stop the benefactors, helped when it could, and did everything to get back in the action. The man supposed to be the mastermind

30:55 of the new age, James Adkins, CIA's latest project chief for Tegu, arrived on the scene in December of 86. That rarity in the Nicaraguan War, a paramilitary man with Latin American experience, Adkins knew the political and legal dangers of the program and tried to avoid them. Eventually, superiors had virtually put him on the plane, handing a 52-year-old ops officer orders and a ticket.

31:24 It must have appealed to fires that Atkins had been an inspiring young person. He had gone home to West Virginia and been a state trooper and had an affinity point with Joe Fernandez, a detective sergeant with the Miami-Dade Police Department. Well, he fit right in. Atkins had gone to college and then joined the CIA. Langley sent Atkins to Laos.

32:00 where he became an advisor to Vang Pao and his clandestine army, where he had acquired a reputation playing a key role in the offensive at the Plain of Jars. By 1970, Atkins had had enough. He transferred to the Western Hemisphere and learned Spanish. He and Fernandez had been a tag team player. They occupied the senior post at the CIA station throughout South America during the 70s.

32:29 Atkins had served in Santo Domingo and Pinochet's Chile. Well, that's interesting. So he's part of the DINA training and setting up the black sites and USAID's torture program. He then shows up as station chief in none other than Guyana. Isn't that interesting? Guyana, isn't that where Jim Jones was? Yeah. And by the way, it was still under the dictatorship of Burnham.

33:04 The CIA guy that got put in office by the CIA. That proved faithful. Oh yes, he was there because that's what comes next. The cult murder of visiting congressman and mass poisoning at Jonestown occurred on Atkins' watch. And the CIA was intimately involved in that because Leo Ryan was investigating what? The CIA. So Atkins is that guy.

33:40 The Nicaraguan War smelled of the same. Atkins rejected an early offer to participate, but he could not avoid temporary duty as a trainer in Honduras during the year of mining. The ensuing controversy confirmed all of his fears. Atkins joined the agency's counterterrorism group, about as far from Latin America as he could get. But even there, superiors tagged him to revamp the secret war.

34:06 Jim Atkins arrived in Honduras in time to see Secord's operation establish itself, witness the increasing tenuous relationship between the U.S. and Honduras, and get the flavor of the severe restrictions of the Bolin Amendment. After just a week in Tegu, Atkins told CIA Station Chief Benson Shields, this is the most effed up thing I've ever worked on. Honduras' relationship had become a major headache, though far above Atkins' pay grade.

34:34 The Hondurans wanted much more economic and military aid than Reagan was willing to give. They pressed for jet aircraft, harping on the same intelligence about Nicaraguan MiGs that the Reaganites trotted out when the CIA program fell on hard times, a threat that never seemed to materialize. The Hondurans played the intelligence back at Washington. So in other words, the CIA was lying and the Honduran government was using their lies against them.

35:06 American diplomats tried to change the subject, focus on regional security, and enlist the Honduran government in joint efforts to train both the Honduran and Salvadoran army units. The first center had barely become active when Hondurans stopped the program. That too, they held hostage for more aid. The 100 million CIA aid program dwarfed everything the U.S. gave the entire country surrounding the country camps.

35:35 The capital of Honduras constantly harped on the dangers posed by those camps on his territory, which contained a twin threat of encouraging Nicaraguan invasion and of the armed Contra Force intervening in Honduran politics. Now, it's probably not a great idea to have terrorist training camps on your soil. By the time John Negroponte had left Honduras, his successor, James Furch and E. Everett Briggs,

36:06 Equally dedicated, never developed the same close relationship with the Hondurans because the generals who collaborated with the U.S. during the early days were gone. Atkins fell afoul of both the Honduran sensitivities and CIA legal prohibitations. Many contracams were in a small area on the Nicaraguan border. CIA rules stipulated that everything entering that area had to go over land.

36:34 Only about 20 miles from Aquagate, the roads were so poor and the rain so bad that it would take days to reach the camps. Visiting one of them in January, Atkins found freshly dug graves of children. The victims could easily have been his kids living in Tegu safe houses. The agency could get medical supplies.

37:03 But the Bolan restrictions prohibited helicopter flights within 20 miles of the border, unless they were intelligence gathering. A few months earlier, Langley had ordered Atkins to organize a rescue mission into Nicaragua, a deliberate violation of the Bolan Amendment to bring out American Indian activist Russell Means, engulfed in the war while visiting the indigenous Indians in Nicaragua. Means had gotten out under his own efforts.

37:31 The mission was scrubbed, but the contradiction remained. CIA was willing to violate the law for political reasons, but not for humanitarian ones. Atkins decided to break the rules. He sent in medical supplies and his helicopters brought out wounded Contras. Then he began to divert scout flights to the camps on their return, bringing back more wounded. On one occasion in November 86, they were transporting military supplies.

38:02 Everybody put on their shock face. For months, the issue remained submerged. But in early 87, after the CIA reentered the battle, Claire George and Alan Fiers came down to survey the new activity. They learned of the helicopter flights. Under the microscope of Iran-Contra, George and Fiers felt obligated to bring the matter up legal channels. Atkins told the CIA Inspector General, David Daugherty, that he would do the same thing again. He was placed on leave.

38:31 and Atkins ended up hanging out with Joe Fernandez while they both learned of their fates. They received reprimands and were fired by the new CIA director, which generally means they were just going to be hired back as contract officers. Political action remained a core of Langley's work throughout this period.

38:55 To help make the Contras more palatable to Congress, the agency brokered deals among the UNO factions and became Calero's group to merge with the indigenous Indians. It is reported that several million CIA dollars supported the UNO offices in Europe and Latin America, subsidized Contra officials, and paid for their trips abroad. You know, because that's definitely mission critical. In early 86, when the question,

39:25 was how to get Reagan's new Contra aid through Congress. Langley was quite willing to help. The 12-page CIA intelligence report in January tried to defend the Contras against charges of human rights abuses by discrediting the allegations, even though they were true. Yet as early as February of 85, official Honduran government investigations had confirmed Contra rights violations back to the beginning of the secret war.

39:52 The result was Congress earmarked $3 million of new money specifically for a Contra human rights independent prosecutor that would bring the Contra commanders up on charges. Of course, Langley had his own ideas. Those were relegated to Atkins. His operational plan envisioned a two-year effort divided into phases. Contra forces would form larger units, open new camps, and

40:21 tried to divert Nicaragua by cutting communication routes. The program included $70 million for military, $27 million for humanitarian aid. Activity would be coordinated by a new Nicaraguan operational group under the control of an Army Colonel, William Comey, C-O-M-E-E Jr. A panel would oversee the CIA military program. For one of its three members, the president,

40:52 appointed Jean Kirkpatrick. Because of the proximity to Aquacate to Nicaragua and the restrictions on flights close to the border, air missions were carried out of Swan Island. Swan Island is the place between that area and the Honduran country and Cuba. That was that island I did a whole paper on that basically is just...

41:21 bird crap that they had put a communication radio tower on it to pipe in propaganda to Cuba, primarily for the Bay of Pigs, but then they left it going. The air branch supervised procurement of Spanish aircraft for which the agency hired former Rhodesian Zimbabwe pilots. Oh, you can't make this shit up.

41:48 One of the early endeavors involved a violation of the restrictions of CIA domestic activity when 100 Contra officers were sent for special training at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida. Meanwhile, the Contras lost Juan Gomez, their chief Air Force pilot, and three more aircraft. On the ground, the issue remained in doubt. Calero claimed 16,000 troops, but the war went nowhere.

42:16 A series of sabotage strikes in March of 87 by a commando group specially trained by the CIA only demonstrates the point. Arturo Cruz resigned from the UNO. The Sandinistas mobilized upward of 60,000 regular and militia. Despite Abrams' promise that the Contras would change the facts on the ground, the Sandinistas contained them again. But this was their biggest budget support of the Contras.

42:46 By March 88, the last major battle ended in a rebel stalemate. Five years of paramilitary action, $300 million had not moved the needle one bit. The administration spoke of 105 million requests in 1988. Congress rejected it. Officially, on February 3, 1988, the CIA operation ended.

43:21 By then, negotiations for a settlement of the Central American crisis were underway. Managua signed a general agreement. The one that they were going to sign all those years and $300 million before? Yeah, basically the same agreement, but was never presented to them because the CIA wanted to use all of this shit to traffic in all the drugs and traffic all the weapons into Latin America for a bigger drug.

43:54 Bill Casey resided over a revitalization of the CIA's covert action capability, and he was proud of that. But no one claims Nicaragua as a victory for covert operations.

44:07 The many questions raised by Iran-Contra actually tightened controls over the agency. In its first appearance before the Joint Congressional Committee investigating the affair, Richard Secord was led into an admission that the old Hughes-Ryan controls were appropriate. Casey's legacy would be the releasing, re-leashing of the CIA. And again, Leo Ryan, the guy the CIA killed.

44:36 The worst aspect of the direct White House involvement in covert actions was the squandering of a presidential's political capital on a marginal issue. The prestige of the presidency openly committed to an effort at a very margin left Ronald Reagan damaged. Project Democracy muddied the waters because it violated the law. There are many wise reasons for

45:07 looking into the CIA. President Reagan's campaign for contra aid came a far way from the days when other presidents in the past had sworn off these operations sooner. I don't know when that was, but whatever. All right, since we're going to call it

45:35 early today because of my honor flight thing. We're just now to the next chapter called Full Circle. So we're going to stop right there for today and we'll pick up with chapter 23 tomorrow. So that's why, again, that's why I love this book because most books don't contain CIA station chief names.

46:08 You have to go through a lot of research to find them. And I find it very interesting that we have this Atkins guy at Guyana and in the Nicaraguan. And of course, he was in Laos. That's just crazy shit. SR, go ahead. Thank you, Colonel. And thank everyone for attending here on Spaces and on Rumble.

46:41 When all of this was going down back in the 80s, and of course, all of this hit the news, primetime news and everything else, we never got this kind of information. No matter what was going on, everything was focused on, what's his name? Oliver North. Oliver North, yes. None of this ever really came out.

47:09 They didn't talk about the CIA. They didn't talk about any of that in the mainstream media, as I recall. It was always about Oliver North. And that's really frustrating when you look at what really went down, because this was stuff going on behind closed doors. Well, you have to understand that.

47:36 Obviously is why I commonly say that these investigations and committee things are kabuki theater because the good stuff is done in closed session and declassified much later. So I remember those hearings. I was glued to my chair when they were happening. I was out in California and I thought it was amazing.

48:04 listening to them um drill Oliver North um I don't know if you guys remember um and they focused on the stupidest stuff like that he had spent some of the money to put up a security fence um and you know that was like a big flack about whether or not it was authorized or not um and it was almost like they um honed in on superfluous crap

48:32 When the real thing and none of the drug piece of it came out, even though that was an integral part of the entire operation, just like in this book, they don't even mention it. So yeah, very interesting. And that's, I'd say the same thing about the congressional hearings now. I don't want a congressional hearing. I want a real criminal investigation and I want somebody to go to jail. Aline Knight, how are you today?

49:06 Hey, Colonel. I'm doing well. One thing that I observed in here was Donald Gregg's name came up a couple of times. And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, again, his name comes up in the Craig Spence scandal as well. In fact, he's listed in Henry Vincent's book.

49:31 As the source of the investigation at the general accounting office, one of his credit card receipts was what triggered, you know, the investigation of this, of the Craig Spence credit card scandal. And also, as alleged by Henry Vinson, he was who got Craig Spence's tours of the White House late at night.

49:59 So, you know, it's kind of funny how there is this overlap at the very upper echelons of... All of these different scandals. And the Franklin scandal. The last thing is that Bella Gray was, you know, listed being heavily involved in the Phoenix program as well. In what? The Phoenix program. The Phoenix program, yep.

50:25 he's working with Felix Rodriguez, is what, you know, Craig Spence outlines in his book, so there's probably some more information out there somewhere. And then, of course, you know, you've got all these other different characters, you know, running around, going from Vietnam to the Rangonja program. And it's interesting how they seem all over the line. Yeah. And that's kind of,

50:55 So we started this journey with the overlap of the creation of Operation Gladio and how these Nazis kept showing up in all of these different operations. And then the CIA blossomed and the same is true for them. It's like they...

51:20 take these guys and they move them from one operation to another operation to another operation. And then, to your point, they morph out into nefarious things in the United States. Scandals, operations, and that's kind of the fascinating thing when you start digging into these operations.

51:50 You could spend a lifetime on one of those wall maps of how they all connect to each other because generation after generation after generation, they all connect. SR, go ahead. Thank you, Colonel. What I find really strange, actually two points here. Felix Rodriguez had all kinds of alias names, and I don't think we've uncovered them all.

52:25 But one of the other things I find strange in the Nazis coming over and everything else, and it just occurred to me, we had all these Nazi hunters going after people and they never touched them. Which sort of just literally defeats the purpose. So they did find a few of them, but only when it didn't matter. Yeah.

53:01 It is an interesting point, isn't it? It's almost like it's a camouflage to make it look like they're doing something when they're doing something completely different. Exactly. And that's kind of the theme to all of this, right? The Gladio things were made to look like they were fighting communism when they were doing domestic terrorism.

53:30 They make all of these regime change out to be quote unquote democracy efforts when they install military dictators. It's like every single thing they do is the exact opposite of the way it's portrayed. So it really leaves you with the point that you need to go back and relook at literally everything. And just assume going in that whatever they name it, it's the exact opposite.

54:06 Because obviously in Nicaragua, they weren't interested in installing democracy. They had supported Somoza for years as a military dictator. And when the people finally rose up and threw them out of the country, then they wanted to come in and install democracy? Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. Anyway. All right. So that's it for today. We're going to cut it, like I said, a little short.

54:41 Go ahead, Illini. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. You were muddled. Are you going to discuss your upcoming schedule? So I did before. I will now that there's more people in the room. I will be on the Alex Jones podcast tomorrow at one o'clock. And I want to thank Illini for reviewing my notes for me. So hopefully that goes well.

55:16 Hopefully I'll get a word in edgewise. You're going to be awesome. And I think some of us will be tuning in, you know, to provide support in the chat section. This is going to be his Twitter feed, right? I don't know if he broadcasted over to Twitter. I can certainly ask his scheduler.

55:41 I don't know what his setup is now that he doesn't have the InfoWar studio. So I'll ask if it's fed over to X or Rumble or whatever. I'll do that as soon as we get off and make a post about it. Yeah, but it is going to be live.

56:04 I would love to see all of you guys in the chat. That's awesome, Colonel. We're going to show up for you. And what I really want is I want you to get called back and become kind of a regular guest on shows like these because there's just so much out there that you've covered. And yeah, we want you to succeed tomorrow. We want everybody.

56:32 to know what's going on. We want everybody to be wearing their Gladio glasses every day and questioning everything. Yeah. And thank you for those kind words, Illini. All right, guys, we're going to do this. And aside, if I can, Colonel. Sure. I posted two of your sessions, one with ultra free and the other with double penetration. And I must say the one with ultra free is by.

57:03 one of the best interviews that you've ever done. And I'm amazed that they're not getting as much views as they should. So Ultra Free, where did you post those? Are they in the pill right now? No, I posted them myself. Yeah, and I think I reposted it. I'll go find it. Ultra Free is Drea.

57:33 DiMaggio. She is the actress that was on The Godfather that's out in California. And that is the longest interview I've ever done. I told you that it's about a three-hour show after they edited it, but we sat and talked for four hours. It is the longest show I've ever done. And because of her, she's been to Italy several times. She's Italian.

58:00 The conversation is very interesting because I was talking to someone that had an intimate knowledge about a lot of the origins of Operation Gladio. She had just never heard of it. You know, because in Italy it was referred to, even though they did an investigation, she didn't live there at the time she visits there. So it's not something that she was familiar with because I lived there for three years.

58:28 And never heard that term because they referred to it as the years of lead. And I was unfamiliar with that term. And so she had a lot of institutional knowledge, you know, again, because the whole Soprano show was about the mafia and how they operate. So it was just a very casual conversation. And one of the...

58:55 I have to admit, that's probably the one I enjoyed the most of all of them that I've done so far. Just because number one, she's a wonderful person. And number two, it was done at a different level as far as cognitive knowledge of the internal operations. And a lot of conversations we had off camera afterwards was very interesting as well.

59:24 I do recommend. It is long. Play it on 1.5 if you have to. But it's definitely worth listening to. And thank you, SR, for bringing that up. Yeah, I enjoyed the show with the DP crowd. I enjoyed doing all of them, actually. But it is especially interesting to do it with people that have been in the military. The one...

59:54 army guy had, although he couldn't talk about it or he didn't talk about it, whether he could or not, knew exactly what I was talking about when I was talking about Latin America because he had went on some of those missions. So putting it in context for people so they can see the big part of it is very eye-opening for them. So those are some fun ones as well.

1:00:21 Anyway, all right, I'm gonna jump off here. I'll take lots of pictures. I'll post as many as I can. You guys take care and I'll see you tomorrow. And we will have it done when I see you tomorrow at four o'clock. So we'll have a chat about it. All right, guys, take care.

Entities here

CIA50 Felix Rodriguez18 Oliver North16 William Casey14 Jim Atkins14 Nicaragua13 Ronald Reagan13 Claire George12 FDN11 Richard Secord11 Contras11 Project Democracy11 Washington, D.C.10 Alan Fiers10 Iran-Contra affair9 Bob Dutton8 Honduras8 Joseph Fernandez8 Iran6 Ilopango6 Elliot Abrams5 George H.W. Bush5 Costa Rica5 Donald Gregg5 James McCullough4 Edwin Meese4 Operation Gladio4 U.S. Congress4 The Enterprise4 Eugene Hassenfuss4 Buzz Sawyer4 John Poindexter3 Robert Gates3 Craig Spence3 U.S. State Department3 George Shultz3 Sandinistas3 Southern Air Transport3 William Cooper3 Caspar Weinberger2

Claims made here

Bob Dutton member_of The Enterprise book_quoted ▶ 2:33

“And the letter was addressed to Felix Rodriguez. Felix ends up in Oliver North's office in early May. And he's basically wanting to throw the towel in, according to the author. And also, Dutton, D-U-T…”

Felix Rodriguez reported_to Oliver North book_quoted ▶ 2:33

Felix Rodriguez reported_to Donald Gregg book_quoted ▶ 3:33

“In the old executive office building on June 25th, Rodriguez had a problem just getting into the White House gate. I'm not sure I believe that either because he was reporting to Donald Gregg and he wa…”

Donald Gregg member_of Washington, D.C. book_quoted ▶ 3:33

Joseph Fernandez member_of The Enterprise book_quoted ▶ 6:11

“but eventually gave him the fuel anyway because Joe Fernandez stepped in. Relations between Felix Rodriguez and the Enterprise was very rocky. Rodriguez asked what had happened to the Salvadoran end-u…”

Felix Rodriguez member_of The Enterprise book_quoted ▶ 6:11

Felix Rodriguez alleged Richard Secord book_quoted ▶ 7:10

“association with the Nicaraguan War. Bush had visited with the Contra commanders at an airfield in Honduras in March of 85. Gregg continued to keep him apprised of conditions in Central America. Rodri…”

Oliver North member_of Washington, D.C. book_quoted ▶ 7:37

“Oliver North's deputy listened to the outrageous charges from Greg via Felix Rodriguez. We're supposed to believe that Felix Rodriguez, the trained assassin, cares about money. Greg followed up in CIA…”

Donald Gregg member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 7:37

Richard Secord member_of The Enterprise book_quoted ▶ 8:32

“Aldolfo Calero came when Congress finally passed the $100 million contra aid appropriation. The NSC staff operators celebrated it, but there was less to celebrate than met the eye. Oliver North had be…”

William Casey headed CIA book_quoted ▶ 9:31

“at Langley, Bob Gates, who had replaced John McMahon as the deputy DCI, received the data on the covert operation as if they didn't have it already because Casey's intimately involved with it. Alan Fi…”

Robert Gates member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 9:31

Alan Fiers member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 9:31

CIA investigated FDN book_quoted ▶ 10:57

“We know that emphatically is not true. One DEA agent was, and he was removed. The author then goes on to say, in the 1990s, the CIA IG looked into these reports. He could not substantiate them, but hi…”

Eugene Hassenfuss captured_by Sandinistas book_quoted ▶ 15:28

“Cooper flew without standard evasive tactics against anti-aircraft missiles. That day, his luck ran out. The plane overthrew, flew a Sandinista unit that was hit by a missile and crashed. Hassan Fuss,…”

CIA covered_up Project Democracy book_quoted ▶ 15:57

“told the Sandinistas his plane belonged to the CIA. In Washington, it was like an explosion. The Reagan administration circled the wagons. Elliott Abrams' office tried to attribute the plane operation…”

Buzz Sawyer member_of Southern Air Transport book_quoted ▶ 16:25

“Buzz Sawyer's flight log recovered from the wreckage showed that he had performed flights for the U.S. military with Southern Air. It also showed that Southern Air transport personnel, including its p…”

William Langer headed Southern Air Transport book_quoted ▶ 16:25

William Cooper member_of Southern Air Transport book_quoted ▶ 16:25

CIA purchased Project Democracy book_quoted ▶ 17:26

“out of El Pelopengo. Secord alleges that Langley decided to take over Project Democracy assets. Oliver North met with CIA officials on October 9th. The agency actually did purchase for $1.2 million th…”

Claire George member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 18:24

“Alan Fiers decided George would be the respondent. I wonder if they drew straws. The cable with details on Felix Rodriguez reached George early enough to be included in his briefing book. But George o…”

Claire George covered_up Project Democracy book_quoted ▶ 18:24

Elliot Abrams member_of U.S. State Department book_quoted ▶ 20:22

“of knowing who Max Gomez really was. Yet they all knew it was Felix Rodriguez. He also denied any knowledge about the operation at Ilopango. Elliott Abrams, who testified for state, also claimed no kn…”

Ronald Reagan covered_up Iran-Contra affair book_quoted ▶ 22:47

“attacking wildly speculative false stories and characterizing the Iran arms cell as a small amount of defensive weapons. Missiles are defensive weapons? He also went on to say that they could fit in a…”

James McCullough member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 23:48

“The hours now ticked too quickly for the secret war wizards. James McCullough headed to the DCI's executive staff at the time with formal responsibility for drafting Casey's testimony. He believes tha…”

David Greese member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 24:16

“Claire George assigned two DO officers to make an initial review of the Iranian side of the mess, which George briefed to the Senate Intel Committee on November 18, three days ahead of Casey's schedul…”

George Shultz member_of U.S. State Department book_quoted ▶ 25:39

“Casey also proved ineffective at editing his own testimony. George Shultz, who felt he was battling the forces of darkness in this crisis for American democracy, had no confidence in the CIA testimony…”

Oliver North diverted_money_for FDN book_quoted ▶ 26:34

“At Langley, Jim McCullough, dismayed when he saw the letter, objected to sending it. Casey's secretary told the staff director he held a copy. The original had already gone out. That afternoon, McCull…”

Edwin Meese investigated Oliver North book_quoted ▶ 26:34

Donald Regan member_of Washington, D.C. book_quoted ▶ 26:34

Oliver North resigned Washington, D.C. book_quoted ▶ 29:33

“In May of 1987, he never saw the final denouncement. President Reagan would make many apologies. The Iran-Contra effectively turned him into a lame duck. Poindexter and North resigned. There would be …”

John Poindexter resigned Washington, D.C. book_quoted ▶ 29:33

George H.W. Bush pardoned Elliot Abrams book_quoted ▶ 30:00

“On Christmas Eve of 1992, Bush suddenly pardoned a series of figures, including Weinberger, George, Dewey, Claridge, Elliott Abrams, Robert McFarlane, and Alan Fiers. That marked the end of a season o…”

George H.W. Bush pardoned Dewey Claridge book_quoted ▶ 30:00

George H.W. Bush pardoned Claire George book_quoted ▶ 30:00

George H.W. Bush pardoned Alan Fiers book_quoted ▶ 30:00

George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger book_quoted ▶ 30:00

George H.W. Bush pardoned Robert McFarlane book_quoted ▶ 30:00

James Adkins member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 30:55

“of the new age, James Adkins, CIA's latest project chief for Tegu, arrived on the scene in December of 86. That rarity in the Nicaraguan War, a paramilitary man with Latin American experience, Adkins …”

CIA appointed Jim Atkins documented ▶ 31:24

“It must have appealed to fires that Atkins had been an inspiring young person. He had gone home to West Virginia and been a state trooper and had an affinity point with Joe Fernandez, a detective serg…”

Jim Atkins member_of CIA documented ▶ 31:24

Jim Atkins member_of CIA documented ▶ 32:00

“where he became an advisor to Vang Pao and his clandestine army, where he had acquired a reputation playing a key role in the offensive at the Plain of Jars. By 1970, Atkins had had enough. He transfe…”

Jim Atkins trained Vang Pao documented ▶ 32:00

Jim Atkins member_of DINA host_asserted ▶ 32:29

“Atkins had served in Santo Domingo and Pinochet's Chile. Well, that's interesting. So he's part of the DINA training and setting up the black sites and USAID's torture program. He then shows up as sta…”

CIA covered_up Leo Ryan host_asserted ▶ 33:04

“The CIA guy that got put in office by the CIA. That proved faithful. Oh yes, he was there because that's what comes next. The cult murder of visiting congressman and mass poisoning at Jonestown occurr…”

Jim Atkins trained Contras documented ▶ 33:40

“The Nicaraguan War smelled of the same. Atkins rejected an early offer to participate, but he could not avoid temporary duty as a trainer in Honduras during the year of mining. The ensuing controversy…”

Jim Atkins member_of CIA documented ▶ 38:02

“Everybody put on their shock face. For months, the issue remained submerged. But in early 87, after the CIA reentered the battle, Claire George and Alan Fiers came down to survey the new activity. The…”

CIA funded Contras documented ▶ 38:55

“To help make the Contras more palatable to Congress, the agency brokered deals among the UNO factions and became Calero's group to merge with the indigenous Indians. It is reported that several millio…”

CIA covered_up Contras documented ▶ 39:25

“was how to get Reagan's new Contra aid through Congress. Langley was quite willing to help. The 12-page CIA intelligence report in January tried to defend the Contras against charges of human rights a…”

CIA funded Contras documented ▶ 40:21

“tried to divert Nicaragua by cutting communication routes. The program included $70 million for military, $27 million for humanitarian aid. Activity would be coordinated by a new Nicaraguan operationa…”

CIA supplied_arms_to Contras documented ▶ 41:21

“bird crap that they had put a communication radio tower on it to pipe in propaganda to Cuba, primarily for the Bay of Pigs, but then they left it going. The air branch supervised procurement of Spanis…”

CIA trained Contras documented ▶ 41:48

“One of the early endeavors involved a violation of the restrictions of CIA domestic activity when 100 Contra officers were sent for special training at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida. Meanwhile, the Co…”

CIA funded Contras documented ▶ 42:46

“By March 88, the last major battle ended in a rebel stalemate. Five years of paramilitary action, $300 million had not moved the needle one bit. The administration spoke of 105 million requests in 198…”

CIA trafficked Contras host_asserted ▶ 43:21

“By then, negotiations for a settlement of the Central American crisis were underway. Managua signed a general agreement. The one that they were going to sign all those years and $300 million before? Y…”

Donald Gregg member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 49:06

“Hey, Colonel. I'm doing well. One thing that I observed in here was Donald Gregg's name came up a couple of times. And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, again, his name comes up in the Cr…”

Bella Gray member_of Phoenix Program host_asserted ▶ 49:59

“So, you know, it's kind of funny how there is this overlap at the very upper echelons of... All of these different scandals. And the Franklin scandal. The last thing is that Bella Gray was, you know, …”

Felix Rodriguez member_of CIA book_quoted ▶ 50:25

“he's working with Felix Rodriguez, is what, you know, Craig Spence outlines in his book, so there's probably some more information out there somewhere. And then, of course, you know, you've got all th…”

CIA funded Operation Gladio host_asserted ▶ 50:55

“So we started this journey with the overlap of the creation of Operation Gladio and how these Nazis kept showing up in all of these different operations. And then the CIA blossomed and the same is tru…”

CIA installed Anastasio Somoza host_asserted ▶ 54:06

“Because obviously in Nicaragua, they weren't interested in installing democracy. They had supported Somoza for years as a military dictator. And when the people finally rose up and threw them out of t…”